To think children do not always come first?

[clairemcnam]

Adults matter too. And their needs and wants also matter.

Depends on the situation a small amount of inconvenience for the child vs large problem or huge upset for the adult? Then yes kids have to be put out.

I would always probably prioritise my child in big decisions about where we live (ensuring good schools and nice places to go, but I'd consider my and DH's needs too).

It's not good for kids to think only they matter and kids can get something out of being selfless too.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3514562-Gutted-at-funeral-timing

About a 13 year old (some SEN I think), their brithday, and their grandad's funeral on the same day.

I put my family first. So family life, family happiness, prosperity etc. I will always prioritise making sure his washing is done before mine, he is dressed before me, he is fed before me, if I'm low on milk he gets the last of it over me, but if it came down to us needing to move house to improve family life then we will whether it is what he wants or not. (He's 2 so can't really argue about that ATM)

@stevie69

I agree.

Depends what you mean by coming first.

For us, "macro" decisions (such as where to live, expensive holiday destinations, family size) are made very much in a balancing act of what is best for a) each and b) all of us. Probably more weight is given to the DCs requirements because we recognise that children don't have agency over these type of decisions and need us to act on their behalf. We do this to the best of our knowledge, with needs weighted more heavily than wants - of course.

Micro decisions are usually done without too much thought - sometimes kids have to have a dinner they're not keen on or go to B&Q on a Sunday. Equally I'd really rather not go to another bloody soft play party but will do it for the DCs' sake.

It’s too complex and emotive to just give a simplistic answer of yes or no. The situation and circumstances affect the response. Just like when you have two or more children whose needs and wants are in conflict.

Agree with Stevie (and I'm of a similar age . Children's needs, i.e shelter, food, comfort, love, education etc are very important. Their wants do not take precedence. I've actually seen family take a young child's (8yo) wants into account and turn down a major life changing opportunity because of the child's opinion. What's really daft is that the move would have hugely benefitted the child.

When I was a child, we were well loved and looked after, but had little or no say in any decisions as to family life. We grew up and took our place in adult society and then had the opportunity to see our wants and needs fulfilled.

It seems that young people who have their every want indulged within their families find it difficult to realise that wider society will not indulge them so much.

Adults tend to be better able than children to meet their own needs. That doesn't make those needs less important but it does mean that they don't involve the assistance of another person.

For example, person A (an adult) is in a position where their partner and toddler both need food. The partner can probably get their own so person A's priority should be to feed the toddler. That doesn't make the other adult's need to eat any less important.

If the partner is severely disabled so unable to feed themselves and has a condition such as diabetes meaning they need to eat promptly that is another matter.

YANBU. Adults provide the framework for the stability of children. If they don't put themselves first sometimes, they're likely to burn out/become exhausted and overextended, and thus less likely to be effective in providing that stable framework.

I also don't feel it's healthy for children to be given the message that they come first at all times as I think this can lead to an entitled mentality in which children can come to expect their every whim to be indulged. This doesn't set them up well for the realities of life.

I know I'm going to be flamed here but I also have never understood why its always "women and children" first in cases of saving people from death or disaster.

If you save the children and there are not enough adults to raise them, then you end up with lord of the flies.

If you save the adults at the expense of some children, chances are more children would get born later to replace the ones that perished.

Obviously the parents of the children would feel differently but I cannot see why you would save a child that is about to be an orphan over a couple of child bearing age. Especially since the child likely doesn't have a sense of their own mortality and is probably less afraid.

Thats just pure logic to me.

whatdoesitmatteranyway Women and children first in disasters is a popular myth. It happened in the Titanic sinking, so the once. Generally in disasters it is healthy young adult men who are much more likely to survive, Children, old and sick people are least likely to survive, followed by women.

If children come first, presumably I can never kick DD off the Disney channel at any time of day or night so I can watch TV.

In general it is too simplistic to say anyone should come first, the choice should be made on the situation and all the facts, including who has come first when other choices were made.

As everyone else has said, it always depends on the circumstances. I don’t think you can make a blanket statement that children must always come first. Obviously children need your care more than an adult, but at the same time you do have to leave space for your partner so that when the children grow up and hopefully make their own lives, you still have a connection. But when it comes to good schools or health etc of course you will focus on the greater need at the time.

An example I thought of was a friend who had her 10/11 year old child in bed with her every single night and went to bed at the same time. No nightmares or anything like that, the child just preferred it. In the end her H got annoyed and my friend kept saying the child’s wishes should be put first. I could see his position as well.

Echoing the common sentiment of circumstances and wants vs. needs. Also, I would change 'children' to 'vulnerable' or 'dependent', albeit preferably in a less daft-sounding way. As in, a vulnerable adult with advanced dementia who is dependent on a family member to care for them; their needs are equal to and sometimes (again, circumstances to be considered) a greater priority than children's, despite one being an adult and one being a child. It's about more than just age. Wants are completely different, as many have said.

If this is about the funeral thread, I don’t see “Moving grandad’s funeral because it clashes with DC’s birthday” as actually prioritising the kids or putting them first, more like setting them up to be very entitled.

I think as parents, we make sacrifices to give our DC as good a quality of life as possible. There is a big difference between giving into necessity and giving into desires. Children should have a warm, clean home and food and warmth. Children do not need to go to softplay every day. Softplay is a treat and a luxury. Compromise on the amount of softplay and take them to the park or play some fun games. It's midterm so they're probably bored.

I think temporarily disappointing children is far more acceptable than many adults seem to think. I remember waking up on my 9th birthday and it was raining so we didn't go to Flamingo Land. At the time I was upset but my parents' desire not to drive three hours and pay £60 to go on the few rides that would have been open rightly trumped me being disappointed. We went another time.

I'm all for things like SAHP sending child to nursery for a break, or putting child in front of the TV so he/she can have a cuppa. I think parental mental health is always as important as a child's needs as they are intertwined.

Totally agree. My husband and my marriage come first and everything else falls into place. I have 2 happy wonderful kids getting top grades.

Not that there's anything wrong with putting kids first but I don't think it benefits them much and can lead to them growing up with a sense of entitlement believing they're more important than everyone else.

I think it is about balance. In my family we balance needs and wants of different family members.

My children don’t always come first, but they never, ever come second.

what? This makes no sense.

Adult wants never trump children’s needs. But the opposite is also true, and children’s wants don’t trump adult needs. But in my eyes, children’s needs do trump adult needs.

Yes, I agree with this.

I agree. You state they do not always come first and I think anyone who puts their children above all else, all the time, is not doing their child any justice. I do not subscribe to the view my children should be the centre of my universe all the time, sometimes for a variety of reasons, I have to put my own needs first, or my husband's, or my mum's, or their cousin's, because that is life and we all matter. The very nature of their vulnerability does mean of course that they are prioritised the majority of the time.

Agree that "wants" and "needs" are not the same thing. I know one mum who brags that she'll cancel any commitment, no matter how important, if her preschooler tells her not to go out. Not just if the child is ill or has experienced a distressing event, but even if he's just decided that mummy isn't allowed to have a life that day. I can well believe that the mother puts that philosophy into practice: I've never seen her finish a meal because she prioritises her child's "need" to jump on her and hit her above her own need to eat. She's very vocal about her belief that her children are going to grow up more secure than other kids because their desires always come before everything else. To me, they just seem like everyone else's kids, but maybe a little more aggressive and anxious (because, let's face it, it must be a bit scary to have that much power over your parent at that age?). Surely it comes down to balance? If you fall somewhere in between the extremes of neglecting your kids and martyring yourself to their every want, they'll probably be ok.

The type that are 'my kids always come first no matter what' usually have kids that grow up to be morons.

When I was a child, we were well loved and looked after, but had little or no say in any decisions as to family life. We grew up and took our place in adult society and then had the opportunity to see our wants and needs fulfilled.

@diplodocusinermine that's just how I remember my (absolutely wonderful) childhood. I guess it was how things were done back then. While change comes, and often for the better, I do think that the pendulum has swung rather too far and that, as you say, our young people may struggle in the future when they realise that the big, bad world won't indulge them in the manner to which they've grown accustomed.