Friend slept with a stag on night out

[HopeDog]

On a night out recently and a friend starting chatting to a group of men on a stag night. She ended up going back to a hotel with, and had sex with the stag.

She thinks she is bu as she is single.

Aibu to think she is wrong?

Both are scum, I hope you tell her that! Poor bride.

I think I’d probably be quite concerned why my friend’s self esteem was low enough to do something like that and also be concerned there could be an issue with her drinking if she was putting herself in danger by doing reckless things.

Asta sadly I think the lack of respect is similar it's just different battles now Even if we were all paragons of virtue the men who hate us still would

To clarify what I said re FWB. The reason I said it’s good as a concept is that I do agree that if it’s done in a respectful way, then yes it can be really good. I have zero issue with that.

My issue is that every man who’s suggested it to me, doesn’t want an FWB, they want a booty call!. They don’t want the “friends” part of FWB. I did try it once, with a guy I thought I’d built up enough of a friendship with to make it work. He arrived, we had sex, he slept, he went home. Didn’t hear from him for 6 weeks then he asked to come round again. I said no. Someone treating me like that just makes me feel like an unpaid prostitute.

I know not all men are like that and I have come across all the “bad” ones. But I do feel that certain men are using FWB as a way to treat women badly. They’ve taken it and twisted it to suit their own agenda.

Would I have done this? No! Would I part with a friend because of this? No!

Although this does not appear to be your friend’s finest hour, nobody else should be policing what she does with her body.

Secondly, for all we know the stag and the bride to be might have had an agreement. We don’t know.

tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz

You’re probably right about that!

She’d absolutely forfeit my friendship. As I said earlier, my friends are people I like and respect. Someone who would do this wouldn’t fit those criteria. How could anyone command my respect when she has so little for herself?

There are women who consider kissing and visiting strip clubs cheating yet seem to condone this kind of behaviour. I just don’t get it. At all.

Would I do what the friend did? No.
Would I give up a friendship because of what she did? No.

I would think less of her though and if she and DH were alone together for any length of time, I would probably feel insecure.

My MIL believes all men are innocent in affairs, the woman is always the one in the wrong for ‘turning the man’s head and making it impossible to say no’. She is in her 70s and I hope people have moved on from this view and accept there are always two people involved in affairs/one night stands

Affairs are complex things. I was friends with a couple for many years. I absolutely believe the man would not have gone out “seeking” an affair. But the woman in the couple made a new friend and over time this new woman definitely did set out to drive a wedge between them. Ultimately yes they had an affair. Now don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying that he wasn’t to blame. But in that scenario I believe he and the woman share the blame. 50% each. I don’t hold with saying “oh but this new woman was single so she’s done nothing wrong”. She should have had loyalty to her friend. She engineered situations when they would be alone together. She encouraged him to confide in her. She made the first move etc. He should have been strong enough to say no. I don’t disagree with that. But to me this woman, despite being single, is equally responsible for the hurt that was caused.

My issue is that every man who’s suggested it to me, doesn’t want an FWB, they want a booty call!. They don’t want the “friends” part of FWB. I did try it once, with a guy I thought I’d built up enough of a friendship with to make it work. He arrived, we had sex, he slept, he went home.

From being around 25 years ago too, I know for sure that there were plenty of men back in the 90s weren’t “honourable and decent” and would have done exactly the same thing! There have always been plenty of men who haven’t respected women - it’s not a new thing!

But I do think it’s more common now. The decent ones outweighed the assholes. Now trying to find a decent one is needle in a haystack territory.

Of course it’s not a new thing, nobody ever said it was but an integral part of feminism when I was young was the sisterhood whose cardinal rule was that you don’t shit on other women, regardless of whether you know them or not. I hate the cherry picking of all the things we put time and energy into gaining, happily embracing all the rights while kicking responsibility into the fire.

What is the link between sex and morality? I have never really grasped this. If a woman or a man are faithful to their partners all their lives but they are cruel to animals and beat their children, how is that better than people who sleep around and are kind to everyone?

No one is saying or suggesting that if someone who doesn’t sleep around but is otherwise cruel is moral.

Equally, just because someone is generally kind to everyone, it doesn’t follow that it doesn’t matter how their sexual behaviour might hurt others.

The idea that men are 100% culpable in affairs does reduce the reality that some women actively pursue married men.
I’ve seen it a few times, where a woman is coldly and strategically ‘get’ a man.

The idea that every single man on the planet is immune to this is not realistic.

That situation is not the case with this OP but there is a thing on mn that a high proportion of people are too black and white about man v woman and keen to put everything on men. Women play a role in these things too

I think for me the whole thing of loyalty to other women or solidarity with other women, stems from the fact that so much abuse still goes on. Still now 2 women a week are being killed by their partner or former partner. Yes there are cases of same sex DV or female to male DV but overwhelmingly it’s still mostly women being harmed. A tiny percentage of rape cases make it into Court, an even tinier percentage end in conviction. And that shows no signs of improving! I just could not be actively involved in potentially causing emotional harm to another woman. We have enough to deal with already. That’s why I take a dim view of someone who does.

“I would think less of her though and if she and DH were alone together for any length of time, I would probably feel insecure.”

So basically you’re saying you don’t trust your husband? Because if you say your MIL is wrong for always blaming women who go for married men, then that implies that you think that married men make the choice to cheat. So if this was you and you would feel insecure with your friend around your husband that implies that it’s the trust in your husband that is insecure and not your friend?

Would you feel the same with a different friend, one who found infidelity abhorrent and respected your marriage?

Curlyhaired Your post is not clear and I’m unsure what point you are trying to make.

I don’t trust anybody 100%. I find it staggering to hear people say that their partner would never cheat. I worked in a very corporate environment. I witnessed so many affairs and one night stands between people in long established marriages, people with young children, engaged and newly marrieds. Never say never!

They are both responsible for their own behaviour.

He's a slimy cheat. Hopefully his fiancee will find out prewedding.

She slept with a man in a relationship, whatever her reasons for it. She's your friend, how do you see her?

Tbh when I've come across people shagging others in relationships ive noticed 2 things: 1) some tend to cheat too themselves so have no qualms and 2) they are behaving very selfish. Most certainly the latter.

For me, it tells me not to trust this person or be wary as those kind of people haven't proved trustworthy in the past. One i was frends with for years (she did similar to your friend and i should have dropped her after the first few men) - she happily had relationships with men in relationships- and later made a play for 2 close friends husband/boyfriend. She was selfish and had no loyalty to her friends or no compassion/empathy for any of her flings partners.

Another was deeply unhappy in herself and felt terrible about it. She still beats herself up. She is a good person who did something bad, that is how she sees herself. She is a good person and friend. She hasn't ever done it since and had been cheated on before it so knew the pain and beat herself more over it.

In both cases obviously men are 100% blame and shits but in my second friend's case i actually hate him as i feel he manipulated her. He knew she was depressed and felt terrible, he was her friend and he got drinking with her, made her feel like she was someone (ex did number on her) promised her the moon and she fell for it. It was gratifying when his wife left him (not for that affair as she had already known of another) she divorced him and he's left alone and friendless.

So i think it can be hard to answer generically. However anyone shagging soneone in a relationship is behaving selfishly imo, questionably too. But they are not responsible for the person who is cheating and it is true that doubtless the cheat would find another.

Fullofjellybeans, sorry but if a decision I make would knowingly hurt someone else, and I make it anyway... that's on me.

I am accountable for it.

It doesn't change the fact I've made a poor decision if the person is a stranger.

In divorce law with affairs at play the judge doesn't say "oh the woman he cheated with is single, let's not name her as a factor"

I haven't said the husband isn't accountable, I've said they both are.

This whole shes single therefore has no obligations to be a decent person is pish,

Opportunity and ability go hand in hand without both present cheating doesn't happen

I genuinely adore my friends. I could not imagine cutting them off for something they’ve done like this. They will still be the friend I love. We stick by each other, that’s what friends do, equally I know they wouldn’t judge me on one action, rather our years of friendship. I don’t think you can be that close if you could easily say you’d no longer be that person’s friend.

I wouldn't do it myself and I'm fairly certain most of my friends wouldn't want to, but... I find these threads where people stand in judgement of their own friends so much worse than casual sex. Both sides understood that.

Your friends don't all have to do / choose / act the same way you strive to. It's immature to think that your values and your friends' values will always overlap!! and even if they did overlap in theory, people often don't manage it in practice. So be a better friend and TRY not to judge!

I also hate the black and white thinking that cheating is THE worst type of behaviour. Many conservative people who judge in these situations will have (consciously, unconsciously, inadvertently) judged single mothers and made them feel CRAP. Many people who consider themselves moral because they won't tolerate cheating will have turned a blind eye to all sorts of situations that left somebody abandoned or in pain or despair of some sort.

The OBSESSION with cheating is coming from a patriarchal place in my opinion. I could be wrong. This hasn't been explained to me (Yet?!?!!?) but I have a sense that this obsession with not being complicit in somebody else's infidelity is coming from a place of policing women and also conservative 'mores'.

So much goes on that is so much worse than sex.

These threads! ARGH

I don’t think you can be that close if you could easily say you’d no longer be that person’s friend.

Actually, I agree with you. I don't think it's possible to be that close to someone whose morals and values are so diametrically opposed to one's own. If a "friend" of mine thought that this kind of behaviour was ok, that would just demonstrate that I didn't know her very well in the first place.

Yes that is crappy

Aldi, I think cheating is disgusting, I am a single mother, with two disabled children, I volunteer 3 days a week at a woman's shelter while they are in school....

You've had a rant about assumptions while creating a list of them yourself.

It's a thread directed at the subject of cheating.... hence the discussion.

I'd hazzard a guess it's your thinking that's a little on the black and white side aswell