Wife is in so much debt

[DesperatSte]

I've just found out, that via a number of credit cards and loans on items, my wife has nearly £40,000 of debt I didn't know about.

I was led to believe the cards were under control, paid off and generating cash back.

It turns out that after the money we share for joint expenses, everything each month goes to making the minimum payments and more is constantly being borrowed to do this - her monthly take home pay is less than what is needed to clear this.

I have inadvertently been paying for food and treats for both of us for weeks, which is how I I found out about this when she could not take it in turns or split costs. There is nothing in her current account and she has had to take built up cash (more than she contributed herself) from the account we pay our bills from to cover charges made by her bank.

I have some savings and she's talked about using these to pay things down so that the interest is not as high. Am I selfish not to want to do this? I can see it being swallowed up and if the spending continues, we will be worse off. I'll also need it, as it seems she has no income left and I'll be subsidising her living.

Leave her. You deserve better. Her debts are not and should not be your problem.

The problem is that although being married doesnt in itself make you responsible for the other spouses debts, it's possible for them to be included in a divorce settlement and also they may be financially linked if eg they own a home together. So if you're in a position where your partner runs up a lot of debt, it can impact on you.

Are you certain there's no gambling OP?

If you think that she's stopped spending and wants to sort this out, and between you it's possible to pay at least the minimum payments on everything with a little extra, then look into snowballing the debt:

debtcamel.co.uk/debt-options/guide-to-snowballing/

She has to be absolutely open about what debts there are, that the overspending stops and she has to be fully on-board with tackling this. It won't be fixed if she's not wholly committed to working at it.

To answer your AIBU, no you're not wrong to not want to use your savings. If you fix this mess for her then she won't learn that her recklessness has consequences. Not only that but you do need to protect yourself in case the full extent of the debt still hasn't been revealed to you or the marriage does break down at some point.

You sound quite vague as to where the money has gone, have you seen her bank statements, credit card statements and all correspondence from her debtors? Has she cut up the credit cards? I would insist on this happening immediately.

I would also be informing her that by decieving you she has lost the right to any privacy or autonomy regarding finances for the time being. I would insist on taking complete control of all household expenditure, having access to all accounts (since it sounds like you have seperate accounts?) and correspondence regarding her debt until this is all sorted and she has earned back the trust you've lost. If she couldn't accept that then I would leave.

Then together you need to make a list of anything she owns that she can sell to got towards paying off the debts. She needs to contact Step change for advice around consolidating her debts and whether this is the best course of action. Cut back on anything non-essential so that you don't get into more trouble.

I would also be making it clear that, money aside, on a personal level it's extremely hurtful that you've been kept in the dark about something so important that affects you both and that so far the only solution she can think of is for you to use your savings to fix it. I would be needing to see some genuine remorse or regret and if I didn't then it would make me seriously question the future of the marriage.

gambling addiction? because £40k can't otherwise evaporate without physical purchases

My word. Marriage is about sharing things. She's made a mistake, a big one, but it doesn't have to be end of a marriage.

It can affect the other partner, when my friend declared bankruptcy, they went after her half of the house. They had to put it on the market even though they had dependent children living there.

Does she seem to be taking responsibility for the debt? Is she talking with you about how to tackle it? For this amount of debt, I think you need to have a written down plan that you both agree with. The longer it's swept under the carpet or allowed to drift, the worse the debt will get.
Can she sell stuff?
Can she cut any of the interest rates?
Has she cut up the cards?
Has she stopped overspending?

Oh god!

Okay in practical terms you need to march her down citizens advice or stepchange. It’s possible she could do an IVA or DMP the former will be paid off in 5/6 years and could write off a great deal of debt but comes with big fees as an insolvency practitioner is needed. The latter most lender will freeze interest and charges whilst in a plan, you may even be able to negotiate token payments of £1 a month and focus on paying off one dent at a time eg she owes 2k to eon and 3k on a credit card and the minimum payments are £300 for both then give wom the token payment and pay £300 on the higher dent until paid off so on and so forth you can start from biggest dent to smallest or vice versa.

IVA and bankruptcy is problematic if you own property, they will expect you to remortgage to free up any equity for a lump sum settlement.

Emotionally she needs help clearly, those cards need cutting up ASAP and be wanting some answers! Did she never learn to manage money? You may even need relationship counselling to move past this if you even can.

Also sell what you can. Flog everything you can or return anything to pay off as much dent as poss.

Her attitude would be key for me. If she's stopped the spending, understands how she got into this mess and is prepared to generate extra income to help pay it off then it's worth salvaging.
If she feels hard done by that the cc Co has charged her so much interest, that you won't bail her out and doesn't want to really change then ime it's going to happen again until you finally walk away.
My ex felt hard done by, refused to consider getting a second job and resented not being able to spend. The lying and the resentment were what did for us.

Tbh, without kids I'd be gone pretty much. And I say that as the one most likely to be in your wife's position in our relationship.

YANBU to want to keep your savings.

Has your wife apologised or offered any explanation or solutions to her debt? You need to keep talking to her.

Personally, I would not be able to trust her after this but hopefully you can get past this.

Hi OP

I think my reaction would depend on two things. Does she seem genuinely sorry? Both for the spending and the lying.

And what are her plans to stop it happening again. Does she know why she felt like she had to do it? Are there any problems that spending recklessly felt like it was helping? Is she prepared to live a lot more frugally until it's under control? Is she happy for you to take control of the finances for now and give her minimal spending money so she doesn't lose control again? Is she prepared to do more to get in some extra money - selling things, overtime or tutoring or something? Will she get some help?

I think the answers to all these questions will help you decide whether you can get past it

If its unaffordable then you can contact each credit card company individually and make payment arrangements. Normally they default it on her credit file then freeze any further interest. Allowing reduced payments and you/her to clear capital.

Also this will preveng her being accepted for most further forms of credit til its cleared

Everyone saying ltb might be a bit harsh. It depends how important money is to you.
Im sure she has other qualities you love.

As a partner in marriage you can choose to get through this together. Id suggest you start to pool money into one bills account. Pay all outgoings inc bills food cars debt etc and split the remaining between you equally.

If this is a dealbreaker for you and your wife is going to be single, she will probably struggle to rent a home with this debt unless shes got a high income. Please go gently.iv worked in debt advice and it happens to many people and mounts up fast

I would encourage her to ring Step Change a debt charity that are just so amazing and non judgemental.
Debters Anonymous is a 12 step programme like AA that she could attend to help with her spending addiction.
I would encourage her to take responsibility for this herself though.
Could she have an IVA or go bankrupt?
Then she would have an appalling credit rating but she probably does anyway so nothing to lose except worry.

Oh and keep your savings, they'll be a drop in the ocean of her debt and she'll probably just be in the same position in the suture if you keep bailing her out.

So obviously she needs to get her shit together, get help from one of the charities out there, and get a plan to pay off her debts.

Please protect yourself as best you can. Don't let a loan be secured on any property you both own, for example. Don't lend her the money to pay it back yourself, don't give the money, or whatever. Know that this will likely have already affected your own credit score, perhaps even permanently. I'd take your own financial advice separately.

Does she understand how bad things are? Does she seem like she wants to sort it out?

I've been in your wife's shoes. I managed to build up almost 30k in loans and credit cards and reached the point where just covering minimum payments was leaving me having to do food shops on the credit card.
What started off as a small loan for carpets when we moved house snowballed into massive debts, we had no savings and every unexpected cost was put on a credit card.
I had a breakdown a few years ago and was off work sick, dp broke his arm and had time off sick etc and we were living off credit. Dps mental health became really bad and I felt I couldn't put the worry of the debt onto him so took out loans to try to consolidate. I was just digging us into a bigger hole.
I finally confessed a few months ago and we have now entered into an iva. I feel so ashamed and guilty that ive put us in this situation and for hiding it for so long. However, it wasn't something I did intentionally, or maliciously, i was just trying to take care of my family. I didn't spend money on new clothes or things for myself, it was purely trying to keep food in the cupboard and the car running etc which is why dp has stood by me and forgiven me

We still need to talk more about this, obviously, but she seems sorry to have let it get to this.

I've said I won't be paying off the debts with savings. I was worried I was being selfish by thinking this, but your replies have encouraged me. We're looking into the things that have been suggested, so thank you for the advice.

It doesn't seem to be gambling, but the statements say 'paypal', 'ebay', 'amazon,' Debenhams'etc, so not always easy to know.

She wants to help herself and has cancelled subscriptions and removed card details from her browser. I have the physical cards.

Turns out she applied for a further loan when she realised she couldn't manage this, but was rejected. No option of moving any on 0% balance transfers at the moment.

My gut is that I don't want to leave - apart from the obvious deceit, she's answered truthfully, if a bit vaguely. I've seen the info from the lenders. There's nothing against our house and my Experian score is still high (I've never borrowed). CAB appointment next week and she's receptive to the idea that I'll control the finances apart from taking her salary and handing it back in chunks, as that would empty her account further and cost her more interest when calculated. Struggling not to feel 'abusive' as one poster mentioned in not allowing spending, but I suppose that's what she needs me to do.

If this was a woman saying her husband had ran up £40k of debt and lied about it leaving the wife to subsidise him everyone would be calling him all the bastards under the sun and asking “have you left him yet?” Etc

^This.

I would leave her. I couldn’t get over the lies and deceit. 40k is massive amount of money and I couldn’t forgive that.

If she's being vague, then she isn't actually being truthful. Set clear boundaries and be comfortable with what you'll do when she lets you down. Because I'm sorry to say it, but if she's not being truthful now then she will let you down.

Also get her to look into selling the crap she's bought on ebay and facebook marketplace and using the money to pay down some of her debts. To spend tens of thousands, there must be a few thousand quid of stuff there.

Op no one spends that kind of money on bits and bobs. She may need professional help with a shopping addiction before you can both move on,
If she is paying it back in full without your help, then there is no reason for you to leave. I do fear that this is a huge undertaking for her.