Wife is in so much debt

[DesperatSte]

I've just found out, that via a number of credit cards and loans on items, my wife has nearly £40,000 of debt I didn't know about.

I was led to believe the cards were under control, paid off and generating cash back.

It turns out that after the money we share for joint expenses, everything each month goes to making the minimum payments and more is constantly being borrowed to do this - her monthly take home pay is less than what is needed to clear this.

I have inadvertently been paying for food and treats for both of us for weeks, which is how I I found out about this when she could not take it in turns or split costs. There is nothing in her current account and she has had to take built up cash (more than she contributed herself) from the account we pay our bills from to cover charges made by her bank.

I have some savings and she's talked about using these to pay things down so that the interest is not as high. Am I selfish not to want to do this? I can see it being swallowed up and if the spending continues, we will be worse off. I'll also need it, as it seems she has no income left and I'll be subsidising her living.

The best thing she can do is get onto step change and with their help apply for an IVA. This means her creditors will be asked to stop charging interest and a plan will be set up to pay of the debt. A friend of mine did this and went from paying over a £1000 a month to pay min payments to £200. Step change are brilliant - if you call them there's no judgement and just help.

I'd try get that sorted and then look at the lies and how this happened. Some big conversation are needed.

I think much depends on what the money was spent on - if its stuff for the family and you were aware it was being bought you are jointly culpable in that you should be aware of all finances and whether or not it can be afforded. e.g. I have 20 grands worth of cc debt at the moment. DH is aware of it but "forgets" about it and acts shocked next time I remind him when he wants to blow 300 quid on glasses which incidentally he wants to put on said credit cards!! We have been on seriously reduced salary for a couple of years and it has meant that food (ie essentials) school meals, uniform and shoes have all gone on the card as there was no excess after basic bills.

I think its more a case of you need to sit down, agree a way forward - ie look at the debts and what they were spent on, look at how some money can be recouped, look at options for refinancing and payback of the debts and either cut the cards up or place them in the freezer for emergencies (but make sure numbers etc aren't stored elsewhere)

Go and look for how to paydown debts. I suspect two things - a spending habit and that potentially many of the debts are about family spending etc.

You need to give her support to sort this out and if after giving her that chance its not working then look at other options.

I would suggest getting all the paperwork out and sorting out what is owed where and at what rates.

Work out what all the min payments are as well.

If the minimum payments are not manageable you have a couple of options - rolling the debt into loans and paying back (it will be less expensive interest wise to do this) or phoning the companies and asking about a plan to repay and freezing of interest - some will work with you on this.

Further if you are asking her to contribute equally to the marriage costs then consider relooking at this if it is clearly unaffordable for her if her salary or work hours are lower. This may also have been some of the root of the debt (she is trying to keep up with you). You clearly have far more disposable income than she does after the payments into the joint account. Marriage is a partnership and needs to be fair overall not just equal financially.

I can absolutely believe this. My husband's ex did something very similar. He was so relieved when they divorced and she no longer had access to the joint account. She's still in debt 20 years later despite him leaving her mortgage free. Debt free and with high maintenance costs. And theres nothing to show for it. She literally just buys lots of cheap stuff. He's still bailing her out.

What you do to help your wife will depend on how much you love her.
You can help pay off her debts then take time to help her learn how to manage money or you can make her take another job solely to use the wages from that to pay her debts or you say “you’ve deceived me too much, I want to end this marriage “

Are the debts from before she knew you or from overstretching her credit cards to pay for your wedding or home improvements? Because if she has been subsidising your lifestyle to keep you happy, that’s completely different to if she has been spending money gambling.

Do you still see yourself together in five years? Because if you do you will help her.

I’d not dump my husband if I found out he was in debt.

If this was a woman saying her husband had ran up £40k of debt and lied about it leaving the wife to subsidise him everyone would be calling him all the bastards under the sun and asking “have you left him yet?” Etc

Yes but this is Mumsnet, so you have to make special allowances for the fact that many posters prefer to see women treated differently to men.

You make her cut all of her cards up, and do a credit search together so there are no more secrets. Then sell everything that you can on local FB pages or Ebay if it's high value (ie clothes, bags) to reclaim as much back as you are able.

But do not bail her out, she will learn nothing. She pays it back, every penny and until then, you support her with the basics. She could try finding extra work too.

If she won't agree to that, then walk away.

How can somebody be so in the dark about their family finances?
I manage our finances, but dh would soon know if I'd overspent and likewise me with him.
When you are a couple it's family money, not his n hers, you might as well stay single if you feel like this.
I couldn't live with the deceit, but I'd be asking myself why I was so stupid as not to keep my eye on the ball.

A1203
Rubbish.

I actually came on to say I can't believe people are saying to LTB without knowing what led to this. In your shoes I would want to know why this debt accumulated in the first place. And it is obvious she lied as she did not want you to leave her.

This happened to a friend of mine. She found out her DH had £40k debt she knew nothing about. The reason actually made sense, so no gambling debts, other woman, etc. Just a funeral debt that got out of hand with interest etc. And her DH had hidden it as he was afraid the marriage would end if she found out. They worked through it and are now debt free.
So the most important thing for me would be why this debt had happened.

Thanks for taking the time to reply and sharing some of your experiences.

As I say, I cannot seem to see what the money has gone on. It began with frivolous overspending on hobbies and treats and I think now the issue is the interest and charges.

I can see why some posters are considering that she might have had to xo this to share costs 50/50. We have no children to pay for and there is a negligible difference in our income now - for years she was earning much more than me and only now have I risen to a slightly higher number.

I haven't been living a lavish lifestyle and have certainly not benefited from all this borrowing. There are a few things she has that could be sold, but so far she hasn't really discussed this.

Plenty of people have already said leave, leave her to it, etc. . But never let an opportunity to whatabouttery, eh?

In threads like this, husband or wife, people always ask what was it spent on. Cos it's important.

If it's a bloke spending on a motorbike or a woman buying shoes (to stereotype), then the answers are going to be different than if they were using credit to buy food or stuff the dc needed. OP hasn't said what it's been spent on.

x-posted

I have seen plenty of threads on here where a wife has discovered secret debt and no one has raised the question if the household costs were slit equally or she was enjoying the lifestyle this debt gave so therefore she should give all her savings to help out her partner and pay all living costs from now on so their money could service the debt and if he suggested it he would be called a cocklodger and she would be told to LTB.

The lies and leval of debt would be enough for me the end the marriage. His debt was not built up overnight so she has been dishonest for some time and that alone would be a deal breaker for me.

Cut up the credit cards and see if you can speak to a debt advisor. Only have cards where the borrowed amount is paid off in full every month, to avoid interest and further debt.

I'd be gone, no way would I stay with someone who could run up so much debt on credit cards. It takes a long time, a lot of stupid spending and a lot of lie to get that much in debt. The sheer selfishness and the volume of debt will totally change your life for years to come, no holidays, no spending, watching what she is spending, the wasted interest, subsidising her - and please nobody give me that shit about "that's what marriage is about", subsidising because of different incomes is fine but not because one was monumentally stupid. The last straw would be how quick she expected you to hand over your savings, no way!!

Have you kids? I know that makes this harder, but if I had no kids I'd already be on the motorway out of dodge

If you intend to split over this, you need proper legal advice, or you could end up saddled with half the debt.

I would not end an otherwise happy marriage over this. I would keep money separate and help her sort out her debt.
But it really depends how much you want to stay married. Only you can decide that.

" MadAboutWands Fri 22-Feb-19 11:07:13

Unfortunately they are not HER debts but YOURS together."
Exactly, and if any of her creditors decided to sue you would also be liable. If you're legally married, I don't even think leaving her would absolve you of the responsibility.
So it's urgent, bring it out into the open now, however hurtful for both of you.
As others have said it's a common problem, credit is too easy to get. One of my daughters was a carefree spender, and when at Uni had a big bank overdraft. I was tired of helping her out so rang the bank and told them to stop lending her money. They said , "We can't do that!" They make profit out of it.
Then she met her current partner, who has managed to organise her.
Fingers crossed.

£40k is an enormous amount to spend simply on clothes and other treats with nothing much to show for it, and without you noticing. I'd be inclined to wonder whether, as other posters have suggested, the 50/50 division of household expenses don't take into account an imbalance of earnings. Presumably if she has only just reached the end of the rope then she has been using lines of credit to fund regular living costs for some time.

There is a huge amount of information and knowledgable support on the debt focused Moneysavingexpert forum. We used the forum years ago when we wanted to get rid of our own credit cards years ago- brilliant advice there and we blitzed ours in no time by cutting spending to the bone and selling clutter.

Ultimately you are going to need to work as a team to clear it, regardless of whose fault it is, assuming you love your wife and want to stay together. Sit down with EVERYTHING- all her credit card statements, all your monthly bills, the lot- look at where you money is going and look at what needs to change to get back on track.

You need to cut your losses. And by that I mean her. As hard as it is. Many, many debtors like this will just keep sliding back into the debt for no good reason at all.

My father nearly ruined us like this and some debts were still being paid years after his death (different country).

Also she should check if she can get 0% for x months on transfer credit card. Then transfer the current debt there and it will allow for bigger repayments with no interest.

Also the questions about how money is split were perfectly valid. Plenty of women are financially abused. That is not the situation here so not relevant. But if for example a woman with a couple of kids got into debt because she was expected to pay for everything for the kids and had very little money, then debt would be almost inevitable. As I said above, the reason for any debt when a partner builds up debt, matters a lot.
So a partner in debt because they have another family on the side, would be an obvious LTB. A partner in debt because they have bipolar that is untreated (although there would be other obvious symptoms), would be different and you may or may not want to help them get treatment and see if your relationship can get back on track.

If there doesn't appear to be anything much to show, could it be gambling?

Are there people who don’t calculate the total sum of their incoming funds every month and work from there? What’s all this my turn/ your turn stuff?

You need to get debt advice immediately, get off here and ring StepChange they are one of the best. Like other posters I reckon its going to be looking at household income, not just hers and you need to find out if any of the debts are secured against the house. There's no quick fix to this OP, you can't just say she should sort it out. You both need to book a days leave and sit down to talk about this.

You could, as others have said, sell the house and she can pay back the debts out of her equity, if you want to split up. But if you are committed to each other, particularly if you want kids in future, then you need something like a debt management plan.

You need to decide and act.

I have seen plenty of threads on here where a wife has discovered secret debt and no one has raised the question if the household costs were slit equally or she was enjoying the lifestyle this debt gave

I challenge this assumption on two fronts.
1 - you assume it’s the same posters saying contradictory things. Unless you actually trawl individual poster histories, how can you make this statement? MN is not a cohesive single thought. It’s a collection of people with very different views at times!!
2 - there was a recent thread about a women who’s husband had secret debt. Turns out her head was a bit in the sand about household expenses and she was challenged on this as she put all the blame on her husband.

The reality is a lot of women are financially abused, which is why people are asking for more detail.

Exactly, and if any of her creditors decided to sue you would also be liable. If you're legally married, I don't even think leaving her would absolve you of the responsibility.

That's not correct. If the debts are solely in her name, creditors can't go and take OP's stuff. They can though go after joint accounts, joint mortgage etc.