Wife is in so much debt

[DesperatSte]

I've just found out, that via a number of credit cards and loans on items, my wife has nearly £40,000 of debt I didn't know about.

I was led to believe the cards were under control, paid off and generating cash back.

It turns out that after the money we share for joint expenses, everything each month goes to making the minimum payments and more is constantly being borrowed to do this - her monthly take home pay is less than what is needed to clear this.

I have inadvertently been paying for food and treats for both of us for weeks, which is how I I found out about this when she could not take it in turns or split costs. There is nothing in her current account and she has had to take built up cash (more than she contributed herself) from the account we pay our bills from to cover charges made by her bank.

I have some savings and she's talked about using these to pay things down so that the interest is not as high. Am I selfish not to want to do this? I can see it being swallowed up and if the spending continues, we will be worse off. I'll also need it, as it seems she has no income left and I'll be subsidising her living.

It is very complicated but can be done by transferring debts to another card to reduce payments.

www.moneysupermarket.com/credit-monitor/easy-ways-to-tackle-credit-card-debt/

She does need to cut up all the credit cards. As a bankrupt she would not have them anyway.

My friend went down the bankruptcy route because the debt was so huge.

DesperatSte Bin there and got that bloody tee shirt!

Gave my now ex a credit card had a 10 grand limit that went in 4 months she thought it was all money to be spent on whatever she liked;!

Learnt my lesson:(

Are you both living well beyond your means. £40,000 on clutter and clothing does not sound right. Gambling addiction? Drug addiction? Lost her job and couldn’t tell you? You really do need to sit down and get to the root of where the money has gone.

Based on the reason and the truth, then you need to decide whether you want to stay with her. Or not.

Either way you are married and are a team. Professional help wlll be required.

Yes I would be massively upset, but I wouldn’t end my marriage over this. Unless you feel you can never trust her again. It is possible to get over this with the right help.

I think that you should both go and see someone to help contact the credit card companies and work out a repayment plan. She needs to cut up all of her cards as she cannot possibly accumulate any more debt. As her husband I think you 'll have to cut back on treats/holidays if there's only one wage being used. last thing you want is a ccj against the home and the bailiffs turning up. Act now, sort out a repayment plan and cut up her cards.

I understand what people are saying about being joint together financially in a legal sense, but but as I say, we have continued share costs equally, and for the majority of the relationship, I was the lower earner. The money has not been spent on our home, or holidays or anything else for us both. She has taken part in various hobbies, necessitating certain clothing and having what she wanted or the 'best' of something has spiralled out of control. I do believe it to have been stupid and reckless, and can see how easily it can happen, but she has certainly not been forced into this situation because she hasn't had enough for the basics or even any less disposable income than me. She earns plenty and it would seem still chooses to live outside her means.

Check yourself on Experian to check she hasn't run anything up in your name.

Another thing to consider is that whilst £40k of unsecured debt is a huge amount, the context of your earnings matters here too. £5k of debt can be an insurmountable problem for someone on a very low wage, whilst £50k manageable for a couple on high salaries.

Whether this a bankruptcy or a mere 'cut your cloth' situation depends.

Do you love her op? You sound very cold when you speak about her. Maybe the issue is the marriage as much as the money

No where near as much as this but I have paid off my partners secret credit card dept 3 times.
I am personally really good with money. My advice would be to see if you can't get a loan to consolidate all the dept into 1, sign her up to Noddle & ClearScore & check her credit report each month to ensure no more credit. You can get a 40k loan over 7 years, repay £650 a month, but the interest could be very high. Or contact all creditors, supply a financial statement & see if you can get the accounts & the interest frozen & pay them all off individually.
She should probably see a counsellor or something to work out why on earth she would do something like this!!

My advice (providing you want to stay together) is not facilitate or 'bail her out' but do help and support her.

StepChange are good for managing multiple debts and will help arrange an affordable DMP (Debt Management Plan).

My other advice is to have a frank and honest conversation about what she has spent the money on (otherwise the problem will just go in cycles). Being a recovering gambling addict myself I would ask to look at her CC statements and look for signs of this. Let me know if you want and I can tell you what to look for.

Don't use your own money though to help because, asides from it not being your responsibility, it really won't help her in the long run.

Good luck sorting it out.

But if there were two salaries and no kids, and she still spent 40k, then her spending must have been monumental!

What steps have you taken so far, OP? Have you cancelled the cards at least? Have you gone back through the credit card statements to check all purchases?

I'm sure that personal debt is exactly that - personal, unless it is out of joint accounts. If you split up different rules apply in the family courts about how that debt is split.

I would sit down, calculate the level of debt, see if you can consolidate it (a personal loan is likely to have much lower interest and repay the loan rather than chasing interest).

Discuss budgeting. Living frugally how much can she actually afford to service these debts. You might need a 5 year plan to sort this out.

Ring creditors and see if she can sort out an affordable repayment plan.

Is you r marriage otherwise good? - this needs sorting before you have any kids.

Do you want to stay with her? I must say, the deceit and the effective theft from the joint account would be a deal-breaker for me.

I would get her help but if she doesn't take the help or change then I would leave. The deceit may be forgiven if she changes. If not then no, time to cut losses.

This is the exact same advice that I would give if it was a man running uo debt.

I think some posters have stuck the boot in a bit but throughout the thread people have generally advised the same thing that they would have done, had it been a woman asking about her husbands debt.

I would have to separate all finances from now on. Her main focus needs to be clearing the debt and I would not subsidise any of it.

Ah yes, she really does need to learn this lesson herself, I'm afraid.

Ignore the posts to the LTB 🙄🙄🙄 sick of seeing that at the first reaction to any bump in the road for a relationship.

If you feel you can move past the dishonesty and work together still, then do so.

I had a debt problem for years really. My DGF bailed me out so many times and so did my then OH. Overdraft, credit card.
It all came to a head when I finally left my ex and quit my job.

I had nothing but credit card bills, payday loans to repay and overdraft fees mounting up.

I pulled my big girl pants on and faced the music. I went on a DMP. Later on, I received some inheritance and I paid it all off.

The aftermath - I'll have a bad credit file for a while but I am proud to say I can manage my money. I don't overspend or spend frivolously. I keep within my means. I now know the true value of money.

Your DW needs to learn this lesson. It's hard but she needs to learn.

For a while, you may want to think about disassociating your accounts with her as, whilst she deals with this, her credit file takes a few hits and consequently yours will too (if they are associated). Potentially, as its such a huge amount, they may end up taking some of your joint belongings which is a bit shit. It may not be as straightforward as disassociating as you're married.

But tell her she needs to learn this lesson on her own. She needs to see the impact of her actions and never want it to happen again.

40k sounds a lot if there is not much to show for it but if she's only been paying minimum payments then the interest is probably accounting for most of it.
There was a similar thread a week or so ago where someone found her partner had 21k debt, some of which she was unaware of. It was very long but there was practical advise about debt management in there Op if you have the time to read it.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3509229-Debt-and-my-husband-have-fucked-our-future

OP, has your wife stopped spending in this way? Because all the conversations about how to manage the situation and pay off the debt are meaningless if she hasn't. It's like mopping up a flood without turning the tap off.

Have you contacted Citizens Advice or a debt charity? If much of the debt is interest/charges as you say, there can sometimes be scope for negotiation with creditors if there has already been huge amounts of interest paid. You need to seek expert advice about this.

I would echo other posters however about alarm bells ringing if the spending can't be accounted for. If you don't know what the root cause of the overspending is, then you won't be able to effectively deal with the issue and risk the same thing happening in future. Unless you have quite a lavish lifestyle (and you say you don't) then I agree with other posters that's it's very odd that she can't pinpoint where £40k has gone. £4k I could maybe understand (and even then I'd be worried!) but how can you spend £40k and not have anything to show for it? I would be suspicious. Have you seen the credit card statements etc to see what she has been buying?

Unfortunately they are not HER debts but YOURS together

This is not true. Some of the advice on here is really suspect. If you have joint accounts and a joint mortgage they may be affected, but you do not own someone else's unsecured debts, and if you financially separate from them which I strongly advise you to do, then you won't be responsible for them. My husband had a lot of debts, we closed our joint account and he took the hit on his own credit rating while mine has remained excellent.

Lots of people saying the distrust/leave, I am sympathetic to this but in our case, it really was a case of it just spiralling out of control, the person thinks they are on top of it but it just gets on top of them. As a minimum I would close any joint accounts/credit cards (mortgage is different) and take advice, with your wife, from StepChange on how to get out of this mess. It is doable but may take years. We paid off our debts and I am very glad I didn't collapse the marriage over this, even though it was deceitful, this wasn't typical of the rest of my husband's actions, only this one blind spot of finances. You have to decide if you can live with that, and her being sorry and trying to fix it will be a start.

Also- your credit files can be linked if you are married/share the same address, but my husband's poor credit has never affected me to date, it could though.

You don't have to pay back someone else's debts, though, if they are in their name and unsecured (i.e. not secured against your home). You may choose to do so as part of a debt management plan for the whole family including both incomes (although again they can be run on their own).

What is SHE doing to sort it out? Is she sorry, does she want to fix it? You cant do anything for her if she doesnt want to sort things out. Feel sorry for you. I would be livid.

Unfortunately they are not HER debts but YOURS together.

Absolutely not true, unless any of the credit cards are in joint names. There seems to be this weird perception around MN that on marriage all property is owned jointly and all debts are owed jointly. It just isn't so.

Oh dear OP, how awful. I know it's easier said than done but I would LTB.

I was in a similar situation except we weren't married. I found out he was in loads of debt but he said he sorted it all out. Years later found out he had not only never paid off the original debt but had secretly doubled it to £50000. The trust was completely gone and we split.

Every time they swipe that card, they are basically saying "fuck you DP". That's how I think of it anyway.

The problem with paying off the debts or even with moving them to a low interest loan or low/no interest credit card, is that it leaves the original cards free to spend on again. Plus they can also spend on the new card. You can monitor this. However they can apply for new cards secretly and gave them delivered at work or wherever.

The sick part is that as they haven't defaulted on payments (yet), they actually have an excellent credit rating due to their apparent great handling of so many cards! So they can easily apply for and get more.