To think db has been scammed by his ex

[lurchersrool]

Db is going through a divorce. There are two children involved who he sees regularly and the divorce was triggered by his infidelity - though he's single now and insists the marriage was in trouble for years before he cheated which was certainly how it looked from the outside tbf.

Anyway, the point is there was fault on both sides but I feel he has been royally shafted by the way the finances have been dealt with. He and I were both given £80k by df in order to buy property. That was about 12 years ago, just before the crash. Db and exsil had just got together but they bought the property together, despite df raising some concerns about it. I don't know all the ins and outs but they had a fair bit of work done on the property which involved re-mortgaging and a couple of years ago moved to a bigger house.

Apparently the situation now is that the amount of equity is so little that there is no point in selling and they have no other assets so db can't get his £80k, or even half of it back. Ex sil has said the most the bank can lend her is £20k, and even that she's saying will partly need to cover her legal costs, so he's going to end up with a pittance. I think it's a joke. She has a well-paid job while db has no real career as such. He has back problems from an injury he got years ago and has always struggled to hold down permanent jobs. He looked after one of the dc for a year as a baby so ex sil could go back to work, but now he's being left with nothing, well nothing aside from a share of her pension but he obviously won't get that for years so nothing really tangible.

It just seems so wrong. He refused to get a solicitor although I had offered to help pay, and I know df is beside himself worrying about db's future. He thought the £80k would at least see him in secure housing but now it seems to have gone and db is back to shitty bedsits. To make it worse she is now asking for maintenance which I think is just spiteful. Normally I always think men should pay for their kids but this woman has a well-paid job and db literally has nothing. AIBU to think she shouldn't be putting in this claim and db has been treated really badly here?

OP, what has this even got to do with you? Saying you'll get your DB to look into selling the house down the line... it's none of your business!

The error was the remortgaging. Is sounds a big house, can she afford the mortgage herself? He still has a 10k share surely so when she ever sells won't he get that plus the profit if there is any increase in value. Could he be a paid childminder for her?

I just don't see what she's gaining from insisting on a tenner or whatever she'd get

OP, if heaven forbid your SIL was in a car accident tomorrow, and your brother was the only one to care for them, how would he cope financially if he can't spare a tenner?

Gunpowder The hard work is referring to the man's father having having saved all his life (I assume), to have amassed £80k to pass on to his waster son.

In fact, OP, I’m going to challenge you to find out the value of the Pension Sharing Order.

The £80K is gone, and whether that’s through bad luck on the markets, or using it to buy other things - those are the choices they made, and his XW is not at fault for that.

So if you fast forward to now, and just have a look at the settlement:

• he’s getting nearly £20K whilst she has a full mortgage payment on her own, for a zero equity house
• he’s getting part of the pension that SHE paid into

I’m not going to say that’s wrong - there are good reasons for PSOs, and we don’t have the detail to argue whether he deserves it for supporting her career over his. It sounds like he was just always going to be the lower earner. But - she chose marriage and that means asset sharing on divorce - so it is what it is.

So it’s not to say he’s even scamming her! But... actually, I’m £terms I bet when you check out the PSO, he is the one that’s up financially, not her!

And she’s paying for the children!

I've asked this question before - does he have a pension that she gets half of ?

Ah I see cold

Did you db earn in the marriage ? Tbh he's getting away easily ... his 80k would have Been eaten up in living expenses.

He chose to have the affair, he can hardly now complain he's been shafted.

@showerpower OP said that her brother is getting a PSO for XW’s Pension. So that means if brother has a pension, it is less than his XW’s.

They’ve clearly spent the £80k he put in, via remortgaging probably so it is gone. They probably needed it given his flaky working.

I am really horrified that you want your SiL to find even more cash to pay your DB off, which could only be at the expense of his children & their home. You also expect her to provide financially for them entirely in future, house, clothe, feed. She is also the RP so will be doing the majority of care too.

What do you expect of your brother? Absolutely nothing. All you want is for someone else to give him back money that HE SPENT.

The cheating has 100% no bearing on this legally.

As a married couple for 12 years the finances are considered to be equally split and little to no weight is put on who brought what in to the relationship at the beginning or who has earned more during the relationship. The basics are the assets are split equally with preference given to the parent who then looks after the kids. The idea is that no-one is left destitute but both parties end up with a fairly equal but probably lowered standard of living.

If she is keeping the house and presumably now shouldering the burden of the mortgage solo and there is no appreciable equity then there is nothing to give him from that. If they have no other assets to sell then they have no money to split.

He probably should get legal advice however.

In this country the law protects children, not adult babies, and to mitigate the distress of divorce children are entitled to stay in the family home with the resident parent

Assuming you mean England, please stop peddling this absolute shower of shite. It is categorically not true.

yesterday they were on about a holiday she is taking them on, which again seemed t be rubbing salt in the wound

Can you imagine if she took the children away without informing DB? I'm sure that would be another thing you'd all be pissed off about. Can't do right from wrong can she?
Well done her for getting rid of him, and the rest of his very biased family.

@lurchersrool

Think about it like this.

He put in the initial 80K. She'd have contributed whatever she had I guess.
That bought them their first home.

They the remortgaged for home improvement. This is where he got a percetange of his 80k back and spent it.

Then they sold, and bought a bigger property. This is where they got all their money back and then spent it on a new place with a bigger mortgage.

Now, they have a very small amount of equity so they've either remortgaged again or havnt paid off any capital.

He's had his 80k back more than once, and he has spent it again. It's not sunk into a house which they havnt paid off enough to have equity.

He does have it as an asset, but he can either accept a buy out for whatever his share of the house is, as things stand now. Or he can wait and get it later.

During all this time, he hasn't so contributed anymore financials (except nominal amounts from when he had a job) and he seems to have provided around half the childcare. That means they have done an equal amount of childcare, with an equal impact to their potential careers. But she has been paying for everything.

So, all these years in and she has contributed more than his 80k plus half the child rearing.

Where exactly has he been scammed?

Normally, the response would be different for a woman because she's have been at home doing all the childcare but that's not the case here and since she is now the resident parent, she's doing even more than him.

He lost his money through a mixture of bad choices and falling house prices. But she has also lost the contributions she's been making every month for 12 years to paying the mortgages. They've both lost money.

Your brother needs to get a job.

Are you actually taking the piss???

I've read the full fucking thread and you can't be for real!

In sunmary, you have a problem with-

Her insisting on taking maternityleave wig her second baby,
Her asking for maintenance,
Her taking the kids on holiday (one she's paid for as a single parent while the kids deal with the divorce, incidentally)
Her having a career whilst your db does Jack all (not even sand for more than a year)
Her keeping the house that theyve worked towards for 12 years, he may have paid 80k initially, she will have paid much bloody more in mortgage

He doesn't even have the kids overnight!!

And your bullshit excuse is that he cant have them where he is, he can take them out for the day! Go to the park, go walking bond with them, let them know that even tho mummy and daddy don't love each other anymore, they love the kids to the world and back.

And you're sat there justifying and enabling all this shit, and then calling HER controlling!

Have you ever thought that he might be vague with you cos he's fed up of sticking your angry, twisted little beak into business that's f all to do with you, and causing more problems in a family that has enough to deal with anyway??? Butt out.

I've not even mentioned the cause of the divorce, what a prince he is, but even stripping down and looking at the situation object Ely, he clearly thinks it's a fair shout, it's you that's bitching about it.

You need to remember these are your nieces and nephews. Are you wanting to continue a relationship or are you going to continue slagging their mum off at every opportunity, cos I'm telling you now, you're going to cause so many problems, for your brother as well, if you carry on the way you're going.

Ultimately, it's your brothers kids that will benefit from the house etc. Let your brother get on with it

*its now sunk into a house

To be quite honest (having worked in a family law office), even if he has a severe back problem now, I can't understand why he's not doing something, anything, to get work.

My DH has a bad back, stress related sleep issues etc and was off work due to stress re his previous permanent job (teacher) yet he still works a lot (supply teaching, his own business etc) so he can support me and my DD.

He still has to pay maintenance for his DC as LuckyLou says.

My DB is the same. Currently undergoing tests for prostrate troubles (clear so far), has had a dodgy hip problem (also undergoing tests but has had treatment) yet he still works - his DW can't afford to pay the mortgage and feed their DBaby.

He is not being scammed, he is living with his choices. And he should not have cheated. Karma

but db is pretty vague about how it all works

So you don't actually know the in's and out's of what is happening but DB is allowing you to think he is being shafted as it suits his narrative of the unsupportive wife that he "had" to cheat on. Poor DB with the bad back that stops him from working but not shagging around.

As for the 80K that he has now "lost" he would have spent that easily on rent for himself over the years if he had not bought a house as he cannot hold down a job to provide housing for himself. That money is not "lost" or "scammed" but simply spent on accommodation.

You haven't said OP what their relative contributions have been in all this. Assuming that the children have been in nursery to enable her to work (apart from she's one year with one child and her maternity) she will have forked out the best part of 80k in childcare costs alone.

Assuming with his poor employment record she has probably been largely responsible for mortgage payments/insurance/utility bills/council tax/phone/tv/broadband/clothing/food etc, etc. He has had an amazing deal and if he has nothing to show for all her efforts then blaming her for that is ridiculous.

Children aren't idiots and as they grow up they will see who has actually been providing for them and will draw their own conclusions. If they ask him what he did to support them what will he be able to say? I did a year's childcare for one of you then I didn't need to bother because your mum took care of everything?

Sand=sahd

Sounds like she’s had a lucky escape!

Have to say I’m about how much of a “natural dad” he is, given that he isn’t having his children overnight at all.

Bedsit with a 5 & 7 year old? Double sofa bed, they share it, he has a roll mat on the floor.

Not ideal so I’m not suggesting you can manage 50/50 care that way... but Saturday night EOW? Kids would be fine with that, he’d get to have them, and their mum would get a break.

I just think some people are missing the p1oint. I would never see my dns go without but they won't as their mother can easily support them. DB will end up contributing a pittance because that'll be all he can afford and it'll make fuck all difference to their standard of living. That's why I think it's spiteful and she's doing it just to make a point.

Disappointed to read this drivel on mumsnet. You want him to be just like all the other deadbeats who don't provide for their children? This causes untold hurt and harm to children.

It sounds like your brother is in the habit of making stupid decisions and is pressing on resolutely now with more of the same. It's really not your SIL you're angry with. You're angry with your brother for being a dick and wasting your dad's handout. If you really feel sorry for your bro, give him half of your £80k to waste as well. No. Thought not.

He needs to accept he needs proper legal advice - that is the only way forward.

If there is not much equity in it now his best bet is to allow her to stay in the house until the children are 18 and sell then - but again not a solicitor

Really all of this need to be looked at properly - and he is refuses that it is HIS fault not hers