To think that Martina Navratilova should NOT lose her job at the BBC and that the BBC is biased?

[TeamNavratilova]

On Sunday, Martina Navratilova had an article published in the Sunday Times, giving her views on the inclusion of transwomen (biological males who identify as being women) in women’s sport:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-rules-on-trans-athletes-reward-cheats-and-punish-the-innocent-klsrq6h3x?shareToken=45bc9997e063aaf79646a7f12a7363a6

The BBC subsequently decided to have a discussion item on this on 5 Live and invited Dr Nicola Williams from Fair Play for Women - fairplayforwomen.com - to speak on Martina’s side of the argument along with Rachel McKinnon (a male-bodied cyclist who identifies as a woman and now holds a cycling world title in women’s cycling).

Rachel McKinnon refused to appear on the show if Dr Williams was on so the BBC’s response was to uninvite Dr Williams and instead interview Rachel McKinnon along with another trans sportsperson who agreed with Rachel. The other side of the argument (along with all facts about the physical differences between male and female bodies which Dr Williams could have provided) was not covered and both interviewees were asked (on the BBC, by a BBC presenter) whether the BBC should fire Martina to which they both replied yes: twitter.com/fairplaywomen/status/1097417280084951040 McKinnon has continued to argue for this online.

AIBU to think that Martina should not lose her commentating job at the BBC for expressing her (considered, researched) views and that the BBC has behaved in a biased and unethical way, firstly, by only presenting one side of an argument on a discussion show and, secondly, by using the opportunity to put forward the idea that Martina should be sacked?

"As an aside I saw last night that in the Canadian Winter Games, they will not even ask the biological sex of the competitor. So any male without any intervention whatsoever will be able to claim to be a woman and enter the women's races."
That demonstrates that McKinnon's lengthy argument against Martina's point was completely unfunded and McKinnon was allowed to talk nonsense without any challenge.

If they fire her I will ditch my BBC TV license.

You're right Hotpot, Nolan and Holland should be sacked. The BBC wouldn't dare to get rid of Martina, they would be mad if they did but I wouldn't be surprised if the woke folk forced it through, this would then back fire as the nation would be peak trans'd and this could lead to its inevitable crumbling. rubs hand with glee
I used to work there, my complaint sent this morning confirms that I will not consume their news now in any form. If it wasn't for Killing Eve series 2 due in April I would be reconsidering my license fee!

In that case maybe Eddie the eagle should reappear in a dress. He’s probably got a good chance of winning if he competes in the women’s races.

Nolan and Holland should be sacked.

I'm not a fan of demanding people should be sacked. It's very Butlerian.

Far better to learn from errors:

• Be circumspect when commenting on colleagues.
• Have actual women present when discussing women's issues.
• Be robust about saying no to guests who are so prejudiced about other guests they won't even be in the room.

The issue is the culture, not one poor decision.

I once got into an argument on Facebook (I know, I know) with a “totally woke” young woman in California who informed me that my “definition of biology” (aka men are men, women and women and you can’t change sex) was outdated.

You can’t argue with that kind of stupid.

Peregrina I remember that, and there have been some articles over the last few years from some of those girls and women from those countries that used testosterone back then and issues they've going through since to now (apparently many started taking it very young - like 8ish - and for years were told it was vitamins). It's heartbreaking reading and sad the lessons that could be learned from them are so ignored.

I don't think anyone should be sacked.

I'm sick of all this picking on the tiniest mis statement and getting rid of people for it.

I just think that the focus should be on what is being said rather than whether or not people are offended by it.

Let's discuss the topic at hand instead of deflecting it with cries of phobias.

I feel like none of the very important points were actually dealt with.

I feel like none of the very important points were actually dealt with.

That's a deliberate move.

Let's discuss the topic at hand instead of deflecting it with cries of phobias.

I feel like none of the very important points were actually dealt with.

Yes, the root of the issue is simple - it is unfair for people who have benefited from performance enhancing hormonal/physiological factors which are more naturally occurring in men than women to be allowed to compete with women who have not had the same benefit. Whether that's because they originally trained while a man and then later became a woman, or have always been a woman and took performance enhancing drugs while training makes little difference. They've still been able to develop a level of performance beyond that of a natural female athlete.

I think any talk of "men encroaching on women's space" etc is unhelpful, and will be used to spin it as being bigotry against trans women.

A bit of a derail but I had no idea that Eddie the Eagle had won the first series of Splash! Wearing very tasteful trunks, no dress required. (I used to dive a long time ago and this sort of inward dive can be very nasty - misjudge the take off and you could end up with a nasty head injury.)
m.youtube.com/watch?v=LN-D8x2VeNM

YANBU in the slightest.

The "transwomen in womens sport" debate should not even BE a debate. It is the ultimate example of an obsession with the rights of individuals and minorities over the collective good & rights of the majority.

My female OH used to box - she was very good, unbeaten in fact. I have trained with her and a guy who weighs about the same (60-65kg) and there is no comparison in power. Men are a lot more capable of generating explosive upper body power in particular than women. It is simple biological advantage. To allow a minority that advantage in competetive sport to tick a box on inclusivity will simply exclude 50% of the population in the long term, it's ridiculous.

If the BBC sacks a sporting icon like Martina for saying so, I may well stop paying my license fee.

Martina Navratilova @Martina Replying to
@CNN Hey*@CNN and @guardian*

• this transgender athletes competing controversy is not about me and it is not about whether I was criticized or not- you ought to talk about the actual issues I raised instead- your reporting is not fake news, but it surely misses the point!

Women who used to be men can’t compete against biological women surely- that isn’t fair.
If they don’t want to compete against men can’t they have trans competitions against people who are like them?
Martina is right and the world has gone a bit crazy!

Martina is right and the world has gone a bit crazy!

Not the world, just the people running it.

I think the radio 2 interview on Jeremy Vines show was worse. They had a professor of sociology basically saying to Sharon Davis (who is a legend among men and women) that if she tried harder and not be so soft and feminine she could beat the men. I was driving at the time and my language was appalling. I thought if that interview didn’t peak every bloke and woman listening then nothing will. For amusement you really should listen to it and see if you can resist saying Fuxk xox to the professor.

I couldn't bear to listen to that interview. The professor was tweeting later and he seems deranged. I think he's just after publicity probably wants to be the new Adrian harrop seeing as Adrian harrop seems to have been told to step down from Twitter he's not been on for weeks.

@walchesterweasel What time was the broadcast ?

It was in the Stephen Nolan show which starts on 10 pm on Sunday evenings. I'm not sure exactly what time the interview starts at but just that item is available here: t.co/vDlxM3gUhV

I urge everyone on this thread to complain about the media biais shown by the bbc and obvious silencing of fair play for women on the bbc website. This is very poor journalism and needs to be called out (in this way) to fight against it. I have already submitted an online complaint. www.bbc.co.uk/complaints/

Thanks. I will put in a complaint and express my support for Martina.

The.bbc is so biased on everything now. It’s time we all refused to pay the tv licence until they sort themselves out

complaint made

Absolutely support Martina and tge science behind her view. Literally can't argue with the proven science, so just overlooked it

It’s disgraceful. Of course a man has an unfair advantage athletically. She should be able to express her opinion without being penalised. It’s not as if she’s being discriminatory like ‘lesbians shouldn’t be allowed to compete’, because being lesbian has absolutely no difference in someone’s ability to compete fairly. A trans woman, especially one with everything intact absolutely has an unfair advantage and it’s crazy that some people are willing to argue white is black to allow an easy medal. If in doubt they should round up some athletic women, trans women and men and do some power and capacity tests and run some statistics. I bet trans women come closer to the male results. If they’re so concerned about gender then races should be run on weight or bmi or testosterone levels.

Now Martina's being removed from a sport advisory board and an ambassador post she's served in for years:

www.athleteally.org/navratilovas-statements-transphobic-counter-to-our-work-vision/

Apparently "there is no evidence at all that the average trans woman is any bigger, stronger, or faster than the average cisgender woman". (ie there is no evidence that biological males are bigger, stronger or faster than biological females) and she is "endangering the health, safety and livelihood of trans people" with her views.

This is insane.

I feel pretty sure that Martina would want to dissociate herself from Ally Arhletes anyway, peddilong that kind of tripe.