To think that Martina Navratilova should NOT lose her job at the BBC and that the BBC is biased?

[TeamNavratilova]

On Sunday, Martina Navratilova had an article published in the Sunday Times, giving her views on the inclusion of transwomen (biological males who identify as being women) in women’s sport:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-rules-on-trans-athletes-reward-cheats-and-punish-the-innocent-klsrq6h3x?shareToken=45bc9997e063aaf79646a7f12a7363a6

The BBC subsequently decided to have a discussion item on this on 5 Live and invited Dr Nicola Williams from Fair Play for Women - fairplayforwomen.com - to speak on Martina’s side of the argument along with Rachel McKinnon (a male-bodied cyclist who identifies as a woman and now holds a cycling world title in women’s cycling).

Rachel McKinnon refused to appear on the show if Dr Williams was on so the BBC’s response was to uninvite Dr Williams and instead interview Rachel McKinnon along with another trans sportsperson who agreed with Rachel. The other side of the argument (along with all facts about the physical differences between male and female bodies which Dr Williams could have provided) was not covered and both interviewees were asked (on the BBC, by a BBC presenter) whether the BBC should fire Martina to which they both replied yes: twitter.com/fairplaywomen/status/1097417280084951040 McKinnon has continued to argue for this online.

AIBU to think that Martina should not lose her commentating job at the BBC for expressing her (considered, researched) views and that the BBC has behaved in a biased and unethical way, firstly, by only presenting one side of an argument on a discussion show and, secondly, by using the opportunity to put forward the idea that Martina should be sacked?

“There is no evidence at all that the average trans woman is any bigger, stronger, or faster than the average cisgender woman,”

LOL at them accusing Martina of being non-scientific!

It's not insane.
It's working out really well, just like it did 80 years ago.

Gosh do these people really believe this nonsense? Do they actually possess eyes and live in the real world?

Gosh do these people really believe this nonsense?

It doesn't matter if they believe it or not, just that they follow it without question.

Someone just directed me to Suzy greens thread on Twitter about this. They just make stuff up don't they? They make it up and then all their little drones just follow along and repeat after them parrot like.

I fully and completely support what Martina said. I also believe it’s what the vast majority of the population would think, if they knew and thought about it. It is insane that someone who has grown up male, with all the (irreversible) effects on their body shape and strength from that, is allowed to compete against females with female bodies. Why do we have female sport at all, if not in recognition of the fact that female bodies are different and usually weaker/slower?

The BBC and other media institutions in this country live in a bizarre bubble where it’s more important to be woke and not offend any TRAs than to be logical and truthful. I hope they don’t fire or quietly sideline Martina; if they do, I suspect they will end up finding themselves on the wrong side of history.

The thing I don’t understand is why eminent biologists up and down the country (across the world) are not standing up and loudly saying “You are wrong. Here’s the mountain of evidence.”

Either they are too afraid of speaking out (understandable given the behaviour of some universities in no platforming gender critical speakers) or they are being silenced/ignored by the media.

Better to do away with the BBC. Let it become self funding and see how it survives.
Team Martina!

It is all so tedious.

Even if you breathe so much as a "hey, I have a question?, it's immediately "transphobe!" without even hearing any further. I saw a thing on FB last week, which was about women. One of the first comments was "putting aside the blatant transphobia..."

It's become the new Godwin's Law.

(It's also a sign of a complete lack of coherent argument, so shutting it down is their only option, of course. But is so wearing, like arguing with a demented toddler.)

The thing I don’t understand is why eminent biologists up and down the country (across the world) are not standing up and loudly saying “You are wrong. Here’s the mountain of evidence.”

They’d be fired.

I’m not any kind of eminent biologist, and I no longer work in academia. I will be speaking up internally if / when my area/ patient safety is compromised in any way.

The interactions I have had, in casual contexts, when I’ve said ‘actually blah isn’t true, look at this mound of data, in fact this is true’ I’ve been denounced.

“The thing I don’t understand is why eminent biologists up and down the country (across the world) are not standing up and loudly saying “You are wrong. Here’s the mountain of evidence.””

I wonder how far this issue makes it into the real world behind Twitter? And even then, unless you start looking for it it may pass you by.

I only started looking into it havjng seem the discussion on MN. I would not have picked it up from any other source.

Which is why making the best of it with Martina in the news is a good opportunity, and also why I feel so strongly about the disgraceful representation of the issue by BBC5 and the Guardian.

Piers Morgan and India Willoughby hqve tweeted in support of Martina Navratilova this morning.

This is absolute madness.

@Bowlofbabelfish that’s awful.

It’s shocking the number of institutions that are willing to throw women under the bus for the sake of appearing right on/woke.

It’s the Emperor’s New Clothes.

While I am generally quite supportive of people who are trans I totally agree with Martina in this case. I bet that the great majority of people in the UK will agree with her and It was foolish of Rachel McKinnon to suggest that she be sacked. It could really backfire if it happened.

The BBC
It's head is so far up it's own woke arse I cannot see anything anymore

I wonder how far this issue makes it into the real world behind Twitter?

This is why it's so important to keep talking.
Free speech is being erased online, but nobody can police what you say in real life. It's not a taboo subject and questions are never a bad thing.

Don’t forget as well that academics are often on short term contracts. Tenure (or the UK equivalent, a permanent post) is increasingly rare. Most mid career or early career scientists are on soft money. They have to raise their own funding by writing grant applications and funding is usually for 2/3/5 years at a max. It’s not secure at all.

The reaction I’ve had when I’ve given VERY polite, mild rejoinders on Facebook or real life has been mixed. Usually one or two very vocal people screaming burn the witch and one or two making a comment that leads me to believe they understand and are GC but won’t speak up. Interestingly, every single vocal witch burner has has absolutey no data and no ability to form a coherent argument as to why I am a terrible transphobe. these are very mild things I’ve said, by the way, along the lines of ‘of course I support everyone’s rights to express as they wish, however it’s not true that humans can change sex/reducing testosterone makes men the same as women in the sports field/I have concerns over safeguarding.’

The witch burners tend to follow a script which is basically:

Transphobe!
(Why please?)
Transphobe!
(But why exactly? Blah is not true, look at this mountain of data.)
Don’t mention sex!
(But why?)
Science has moved on!
(I assure you it hasn’t, I’m fairly qualified here. Look at the data. Do you interpret it differently, I’m happy to discuss this)
Talking about sex is literal violence! I’m not going to debate with you. I can’t do this, it’s emptionally too hard.
(Ok that’s fine. but blah is not true, as the data shows.)
Veiled threat of violence/informing employer/me being the cause of suicides

Always the same.

I can see why people dont speak up.

Complaint made

Meanwhile Caster Semanya has to go to court to prove that she can compete as a woman.

twitter.com/Mollycoddles12/status/1098145364874530816

Poll on Twitter asking for a debate about the issue.

twitter.com/DonaldJTrumpJr/status/1097946006304550917

Donald Trump Jnr tweets in support of a debate about the issue.

I've made my complaint although don't expect much to come of it given recent past experience of complaining to the BBC about similar issues. Never complained to the BBC ever until the past year and have now sent in 4 complaints all to do with this issue. They are not listening but really should given they have so much competition for viewers theses days, I think I could live without my license quite easily.

This has gone on far too long now, and the Emperor's New Clothes should have been long exposed for what they are. But BBC, The Guardian, and Channel 4, glaring silence or absolute bias on what is such an important issue for half of the fucking population. We pay our taxes, we give birth to and bring up the children, we work,yet we've been completely thrown under a bus. They have fucked us over big time. I hope all female sportspeople and their male allies are getting together to put a stop to this.

Sorry for this hyperbolic rant, but how can something as plain as men's physical strength and power over women's even be argued about, it's so well documented.

And the absolute fucking cheek of MacKinnon to say to Navratilova, "do you know who I am?"

Someone mentioned complaining to Ofcom instead, so I'm doing that as well.