To wonder how we CAN even consider not bringing the girl back from Syria?

[SpeakingALanguage]

Do we not legally have to? We can't just wipe our hands of her, can we?

I've seen petition after petition on my Facebook feed about not allowing her back, sign the petition, etc etc.

But if she's a British citizen, does she not have every legal right to be here, even if she is vile and dangerous?

I did see someone mention she would have to get here on her own steam, but isn't there a big part in the British passport (I know she hasn't got one but she was entitled and is technically British), that says something along the lines of Her Majesty grants assistance and protection as needed?

Without her baby even coming into the argument, she alone regardless is allowed back here, vulnerable with a newborn or not.

I don't mean to sound uncaring but with Brexit and the environmental crisis we have bigger problems than one young women who made her own decisions, albeit as a 15 year old. She is unrepentant and should be lucky enough to return to a live in a civilised country she should live in a civilised prison and her child should live with his grandparents so he can have the benefit of the NHS and a decent education.
She should have played this very differently if she was looking to invoke sympathy and forgiveness.

JellycatElfie, they've got lots of sympathetic wanna be war Lords, who are British Citizens, they don't need her.

Puzzledandpissedoff, well we've just stopped one School from taking on secondary pupils, but the hatred of all things Western amd Christian is still being preached to primary school children.

Islamic Schools need careful monitoring. That particular one, should have been closed, but I think the worry is that it will continue, we just won't know who it's being preached to.

I don't think she's 100% a victim. At 15 she made decisions which she should be made accountable for. There may have been an element of brainwashing, even coercion but it's not enough in my view to absolve her of blame.

Out of interest Jelly were you more outraged by the war we perpetrated in Iraq or by the terrorist killings on our soil?

The double standards are shocking.

river me get a grip? you're the one referring to people as creatures.

You do understand that's how you end up in a place where heads in bins are fine don't you? It all starts from believing people who are your enemies aren't really human....more like animals...maybe not even that....then its fine to exterminate them right?

I'd not be happy having you as a childminder to my child...and I wouldn't want my kid going to school with the child of anyone who thinks people (including newborn babies) are 'creatures'.

Maybe you're the one in need of a deradicalisation programme....maybe all the DM readers are.

So you both have avoided my question thus far.

If you sympathise with shamima as she was ‘groomed’ into joining isis do you also sympathise with the Manchester bomber

@jelly

You may as well save your breath. When people such as Birds have to start resorting to saying.."what about", they have lost their argument.

We even have numb buggers saying calling them creatures/sub human is a form of extremism of comparable stature.

They want her back, they want them all back and they don't want them to face charges and that's about the size of it.

That's why we're in a mess. Their bleeding hearts lead to bleeding bodies.

Interestingly awaiting your answers

She made remarks about the UK which I'm sure could fit the definition of treason

No, she really didn't. There hasn't been a Treason trial since 1945 and no-one is in a hurry to try those waters again, especially given the governing legislation is the Treason Act 1351 (no typo). There is little precedent or legal background to what constitutes "be adherent to the King’s Enemies in his Realm, giving to them Aid and Comfort in the Realm, or elsewhere" in peacetime (who are "the King's Enemies" when you haven't declared war on them?) Does anyone know when the last peacetime Treason trial actually was?

Casement was tried over the Easter Uprising but it's a matter of debate, to put it mildly, as to whether the same charges would have been viable had there not have been a World War in progress at the same time. Amery and Joyce were working with the Nazis during a war, but you don't have to be a bleeding heart liberal or a Hitler-apologist to regard both of those trials as deeply dubious, Joyce's in particular.

JellycatElfie, people can be deradicalised.

But to an extent you could say he was. But he committed a crime and it involved suicide.

Shamima hasn't committed a crime.

M3.

I suggest you get a cup of tea, draw the curtains, breathe into a paper bag and then try and work out what extremism is.

You may need help with that but thank you for introducing some levity into the thread.

Your frothing is amusing!

You’ve avoided the question - do you or do you NOT sympathise with the Manchester bomber the same way you do with shamima?

JellycatElfie, it isn't about sympathy.

It's about learning enough to stop it happening.

Our justice system is about rehabilitation.

Yes, we rescued salman abedi three years before he blew himself up and killed our innocent children. what shall we learn from that

I’ll tell you what we should have learned - our resources aren’t able to effectively monitor or ‘rehabilitate’ known terror threats. But yes bring shamima back and cross your fingers (and arms legs and eyes) that she doesn’t do the same.

If you think terrorism can be eradicated by taking a tough stance - good luck to you.

They have the death penalty in the States. That's why there are famously no murders there.

TheRiverIsAComfort, M3 has worked out what extremism is, you tipify it.

As said, every holocaust or act or inhumanity has been carried out because the perpetrators stopped seeing the victims as Human.

there are not easy issues. There is an English Roman Catholic hymn where people pray that Mary's Dowry (England) will be restored to Catholicism and I am sure lots of moderate muslims pray and hooe others will convert and those of other religions too often want the whole planet to be their group. It is when people kill there is an issue and these women who went abroad to breed not to fight are therefore hard to decide on.

For a start we don't pay to get people back to the UK so currently she is not our problem.

I'm not quite getting the comparison between Begum and the Manchester bomber.

One of them was 15 when committing the only crimes I'm aware she committed and that was joining a banned organisation and possibly stealing her sisters passport.

The other was 22 when committing his crime which involved killing 23 people and wounding 139.

They aren't in any sense comparable.

finding lol. They are really tough on drugs and imprison a truly astonishing percentage of their male population...hence why they also have no drug problems!

Calling anyone sun human lessens any argument and highlights your own lack of insight.

I'm sure I don't understand the half of extremism...but I do know it starts with treating people as things.

It always has done and it always will do.

Ideally I don't want anyone who thinks of people as creatures in my country...so that's a large number of posters on this thread who'd be packing in my ideal world....but in reality we have to deal with our own mess, not export it.

So who else is for deradicalisation of DM readers?

JellycatElfie, MI5 admitted its failings over the Manchester Bombing.

We did have both the resources and the knowledge, they didn't use them effectively.

It's interesting because that group were also radicalised in 2013/14. So the radicalisation was very planned and carried out effectively. That's what we need to crack.

We also need to be worrying about what's going on in Nigeria, but let's focus on a Teenager who hasn't committed any crimes.

"So who else is for deradicalisation of DM readers?"

Can you counteract being void of critical thinking and the ability to gain knowledge from lots of sources?