To feel they should have spoken to me

[stressed500]

I'm off work currently with anxiety and work related stress. I've been off since October. I've been told that some of my colleagues have gone to hr about my absence saying they feel if it's time to recruit for my position as they currently don't have anyone covering me. I'm upset because myself and my colleagues got on quite well and thought they would have spoken to me before going to hr.

I think Santa's pointing out that's why they've asked for help at work. Which is what the op is complaining about

You've been off since October? So they've been doing all your work since then? I'm not surprised they want someone to cover it - temp or permanent. Or else they'll all be off with stress too.

What's your plan for going back to work?

wouldn't have minded if they were looking for temporary cover but trying to make me leave my job is unfair. I've seen many posts on here from people who have been off work related stress and gone back eventually.

Businesses can't afford to pay employees indefinitely for being off sick.

I always did extra hours when I was there and picked up a lot of work that other colleagues should have been doing hence I've ended up unwell.

So surely you should have some compassion for your colleagues who are now doing your 30 hours of work per week as well as their pwn, and have been for 4 months? It doesn't sound like you care about anyone other than yourself.

No I'm not close to returning as I'm still quite unwell. Four months isn't that long if I had a physical illness I could quite easily be off four months receiving treatment.

Four months is a very long time to be off work, and not to have any idea of when you will return! YABVVU.

Unfortunately I can't help being unwell. I always did extra hours when I was there and picked up a lot of work that other colleagues should have been doing hence I've ended up unwell.

Seriously? Are you really not getting it??? In this scenario, you can try and prevent yourself from becoming unwell. By discussing getting extra staff with HR to help with the workload. Your colleagues are proactively trying to prevent getting too stressed and overwhelmed at work. And you have a problem with that? YABVU and actually rather selfish if you can't see this from their point of view.

Please try and bear in mind that you only have one persons perspective on what happened. You say picked up extra work yourself. This suggests there was too much work. Your colleagues have lobbied HR about it. The solution to your absence - someone doing extra hours - was always highly unlikely to work as you did too much. 4 months on your colleagues can effectively prove this to HR. You actually don’t know that they have said anything actually about your absence but it really isn’t unreasonable that they ask, after 4 months, what’s happening. 12 weeks is a frequent trigger in most sickness absence policies. They want a permenant solution to the workload issues and so do you - you may need for instance a phase return but you definitely don’t want to get well but then go right back to where you were after returning to work. I get that it’s worrying but also think that this just may actually work in your favour...it isn’t necessarily the negative situation that you are imagining.

YABU to think they should have spoken to you first- that could be seen as pressuring you/harrassing you to go back to work whilst you are still unwell. That could have worsened matters for you. They were right to go to HR to raise the fact that they need more help covering your work.

And even if they had, what would you have been able to do about it? You couldn't have fixed the situation as you aren't well enough to go back to work and aren't responsible for appointing temporary cover.

They shouldn't have told you about the meeting afterwards though. That was pointless and crass. I also think HR may not be impressed either.

I don't think it is "unlawful" for your colleagues to ask HR for a permanent replacement as Rivertam seems to think- obviously HR would have to tell them that this is not possible until you either resign or the process for dismissal on ill-health grounds has been completed. It is not unlawful for colleagues to go to HR requesting something, it would probably be unlawful if HR had gone on to do what they had requested.

Contrary to your belief, 4 months is quite a long time to cover someone else's work whether that is for physical or mental health reasons. It will be having an impact on your colleagues, which is not for you to worry about as you are absent due to illness. It is up to your employer to sort that out, but it is not unreasonable for your colleagues to want something more substantial in place after 4 months, especially as your return looks to be some way off. I do think you should be a little less dismissive of the impact on others though.

@Stressed500 - you seem to have significant issues with control. It isn't appropriate for you to feel that you should be involved in any work discussions when you're off sick, it isn't your place to decide what is or isn't fair on your colleagues picking up the slack for 4+ months and you shouldn't be following up with colleagues nor demanding that they tell you information. Those issues are definitely something you should talk about in counselling; seeking involvement and control over situations that aren't your business may be part of what's causing your anxiety. If you only try to change things that are actually within your control then it's less stressful.

4 months is a very long time to be off without trying some part-time return to work at even just a few hours per week. What is your return to work plan? If you can't see yourself returning then it's better to start moving on to a new job now, putting yourself in a position where you can see a more positive future will help more than struggling to get back to a role that you're unhappy with.

obviously HR would have to tell them that this is not possible until you either resign or the process for dismissal on ill-health grounds has been completed.

Or they can replace the OP with a permanent post and bring the OP back into another role when she is well enough. Employers are allowed to reassign staff between roles with a very wide range of latitude, unless it's in some say shown to be constructive dismissal.

I'm upset because myself and my colleagues got on quite well and thought they would have spoken to me before going to hr

Absolutely not! It sounds like you're projecting your anxiety onto your colleagues now. I imagine if they had talked to you, you'd be here complaining that they're adding to your stress.

What would you want them to say? Do you want to hear from them directly about the way that your absence is having an impact on their workloads? And their well-being and stress levels?

I really doubt it.

Your colleagues talking to HR about the impact your long-term absence is having on their stress levels, work loads, and anxiety is absolutely the right way to go about it. It's HR and your colleagues' line managers who can resolve this issue, not you.

Except by you returning, and you do not sound well enough to do so. And I work with someone with a mental ill health issues who is in complete denial about it - it's awful. I wish he would just admit he's not well, and take time out and get therapy. His denial that he can't do his job has a huge impact on the rest of us, as we have to do his job & ours, but pretend to our customers that there's nothing wrong. It's stressful for us all.

Also I really hope you don't speak with your colleagues in the way you have here, dismissing the major impact your absence will have had on them. That would be unkind and unfair of you.

You worked 30hours but the work was obviously either innately stressful or there was too much to do in 30 hours, as you've said you often worked extra hours and ended up with work related stress.

Your part time colleague has picked up extra hours - but how many hours did s/he already work before picking up your hours? Did she or he do 30 hours like you, and now does 40 plus the extra you used to pick up, leaving 20 shared between colleagues already working full time?

4 months is a long time to be off sick and only cancer or stress would lead to that length of time off without a plan for staged return or leaving in one form or another. It will be hard on your colleagues and may create a domino effect of colleagues burning out. This is why they understandably want HR to find them another team member.

The person at fault is the one who talked to you - colleagues shouldn't be contacting you about work at all, communication should be through HR.

I don't have a problem with them requesting a temp. It's fact they have requested a permanent replacement

You are still UNreasonable.

None of this is your concern: colleagues can request a permanent replacement, but HR/management don't have to fulfil that request.

Your colleagues have covered your work for 4 months - they're entitled to go to HR to lay out the extra burden on them. It's up to HR/management to solve the problem. Colleagues can request - but it's a request, not an order.

You really need to take a step back from your workplace: wanting to know "what's going on" when you're signed off because of workplace stress and anxiety is not a good way to recover & get better. Find a hobby, get a life beyond work. And get therapeutic treatment. Stop indulging your anxiety in this way. Detach detach detach.

you seem to have significant issues with control. It isn't appropriate for you to feel that you should be involved in any work discussions when you're off sick, it isn't your place to decide what is or isn't fair on your colleagues picking up the slack for 4+ months and you shouldn't be following up with colleagues nor demanding that they tell you information

This is excellent advice. I hope you take it. Just back off from your workplace, and that might help your recovery.

I think Santa's pointing out that's why they've asked for help at work. Which is what the op is complaining about

Yeah pretty obviously. Of course they are pissed off. That's not ops problem though that's hrs problem. Let them deal with it, don't whine about it.

apologies, Santa - a lot of people on this thread do seem to think this is the OP's problem.

it's not about being fair or unfair. They are acting unlawfully.

The provisions (or lack thereof) that her employers put into place are not the OP's concern.

Where do people get this nonsense from- what law has been broken exactly? Its perfectly natural and normal for colleagues to continue to be communicating with colleagues on sick. Is anyone suggesting that signed off staff should be instantly blocked on facebook or removed from group whatsap or blanked in the supermarket!

And of course a business is entitled to start thinking about a succession plan for staff on long term sick.

I did say (in a different comment) that I wasn't sure if unlawful was the right term. It was just made very clear to the department I temped in that no-one there could ask the woman off sick when she was returning.

YABU

Your colleagues should not have spoken to you about it at all, either before or after going to HR.

They can go to HR and say they need a permanent replacement, they’re not HR, they’re just the poor buggers who are stuck doing an extra 30 hours work a week between them. HR would explain they can’t replace you and look at other ways of covering your work.

Four months IS a long time to be off with no sign of going back anytime soon. Whether you like it or not. It’s not your fault you’re ill, but it’s also not your colleagues fault and they’re likely to end up ill themselves if no cover is provided. But that cover is not your concern.

HR would explain they can’t replace you

They absolutely can replace you. If upon your return you are offered a job materially worse than the one you had, then that might well constitute constructive dismissal. But if you are a Grade 2 Thing Wrangler on the second floor, and upon your return you are assigned to do Grade 2 Otherthing Wrangling on the third floor, same pay and conditions, the you have not got a leg to stand on if you decline to do it.

but that doesn't mean they can replace here whilst she's still signed off sick, does it?

If posters don't understand employment law, then it is better not to throw around terms like "unlawful". If they do understand employment law then they'll know that employing extra staff is not unlawful. If they subsequently change the terms of OP's employment then attempts to change her contract MIGHT become unlawful depending on how long the previous contract was for for, terms of the contract, what has changed etc. It doesn't help anybody to give someone who is already distressed a false sense of grievance.

the OP has twice stated that he colleagues are asking for her to be replaced permanently.

but that doesn't mean they can replace here whilst she's still signed off sick, does it?

Of course they can. All they need to do is ensure that upon her return, she returns to a job commensurate with her job prior to going off sick. Employers are allowed to redeploy staff, subject to a range of constraints which aren't relevant here. If she found the job she returned to not to her taste, it would be up to her and her advisors to see if it constituted constructive dismissal.

In a large employer, there is a constant turnover of staff. It's entirely reasonable to appoint someone permanent to replace someone off long-term sick, on the assumption that by the time they return another role appropriate for them will open up.

Are you seriously saying that if a nurse in a hospital goes off sick for six months, the hospital cannot recruit any permanent nurses until they return? Or that once recruited, a new permanent nurse cannot work on the ward previously covered by the person who is off long-term sick? Of course not. So long as there's a nursing job, at grade and specialism and hours, equivalent to that they went off sick from, that's all the returner can expect.

You are employed at a grade, against a job description and set of terms and conditions. So long as those are maintained upon your return, that's the end of it: it's the same job. You can't say "oh, I worked on the second floor with Ann, now it's the third floor with Betty, that's not legal." Because it is.

he OP has twice stated that he colleagues are asking for her to be replaced permanently.

So what? As several of us are patiently explaining to you, it would be perfectly legal for them so to do. So long as upon her return she has a job on equivalent terms and conditions to when she left, she has no other rights to "her job".

They are probably struggling, if you aren't planning to return any time soon then they need some cover. No one should of told you about it as you are signed off.