To be angry that parents won't allow their children to go on school visit to local mosque?

[ptangyangkipperbang]

DS2 is going on a school trip to the local mosque. However, the school nearly cancelled it because so many parents have refused to let their children go. I have only spoken to one parent who won't allow her child to go but she said "I'm not racist but...why should they visit a mosque when we daren't get a plane or go to a shopping centre because of that lot". Not racist .

Actually Duchesse, the establishment of Islam is rooted in violence. Mohammed fought with different tribes in order to spread his beliefs.

dodgy link

Christianity is a new version (dont like the phrase upgra
de- implies I think its better, dont beleive any of it to tell the truth) but that doesn't alienate the value fo its history and the role of its development. My old Vicar explained it as an evolution- and I think thats about right, especiallya s that woudl explain islam too, different environments and all that. Anyway if you truly want to understand a species you ahev to consider its evolutionary history dont you?

But chrsitains do beleive the OT. Soke see it as an allegory certainly- manya rguments about that at Uni- but very many believe it as fact and part fo their own faith. You only have to look at Sunday Schools and their apaprent fiaxtion on naohs Ark to see that.

As a Christian, I promise, promise, honest like, that we does believe de Old Testament too...

Bugger off will we Aloha, there's no argument in that

IIRC Muhammad originally preached in peace and then ahd to run away to ecape intolerance- so it could be argued that isalm was created in Peace and then developed as a result of outside influence. Certainly Muhammad was regarded (as far as tradition tells) as a Man of epace and wisdom in his community before the Qur'an was transmitted (hence the story of his solving the dispute at the Ka'ba). It is also believed he absteined from battle during the inter-tribe warfare between the clans of the Hawazin and the Qinana. After being reasonably poor at converting peole in Mecca he moved his followers to yathrib, where they survived by violence- or the raid. They didnt invent that though, it was part of an emerging culture in an Arabia already going througha climate of social change. Muhamamad cetainly became a leader of a violent tribe; whether this would have happened however without the persecution he and his followers suffered is debatable (if youa ccept allt his as history) but the Islam of the Qur'an comes from the time before the flight to Yathrib- when he was still known as a man of peace.

I think Peachy is my new guru. Religion Tsarina.

LOL- Religion Undergrad

not so glam though- Much prefer Tsarina any day Do I get a tiara?

Wish I had read the whole thread. Would be interesting, but only on a quick 5 mins on MN today.

Anyway, wanted to say it is really a shame that the OPs school trip is not taking off. Can say from own experience that learning more about Islam (and same would apply to any other religion of course) brings greater acceptance and would highly reccommend it.

I live in a mainly muslim country now and have learnt so much about islam from my friends and neighbours (very very welcoming and accepting btw!!). I personally have no religion - it is just the way I was raised by my parents - and have no interest in conversion But from what I know of christianity (from school and growing up in the UK) and from what I now know of islam makes me think that there is not that much difference. It all boils down to looking out for each other, to caring for family, friends, community, and those less fortunate. I guess that other religions are the same too?

mrsyoshi - I think that your comments illustrate why religions need to be taught about in schools imho. The public (ie media) image of Islam is often one of violence but that is not what Islam is all about. Someone once said to me that to view terrorists (eg 9/11 lot) as representative of Islam was equivilant to viewing David Koresh (of the Branch Davidians/Waco) as representative of Christianity.

BTW I think that women are not allowed in the sanctuary (ie round the altar) in the Greek/Russian/Orthodox Church. I went to one in Cyprus which had been converted to an Anglican church and they asked that, in order to respect the history of the church, if we could follow the same rules. Not some thing I necessarily agree with but, on the other hand, it is something that they felt strongly about.

Burek pretty much similar for all the big six religions, yes. Function of religion really seems to be about giving a social and community identity and providing an ethical framework that defines such central roles as family etc.

Thanks peachy. As I would have guessed. And it has become all the more obvious to me here where belonging to a religion and its social structure is the norm.

And appositely, an invitation to this exhibition plopped into my inbox. From one of my best friends. She's a Muslim! She doesn't have two heads!! She's never blown me up yet!!!

Wow, shame its so far away- looks amazing .

I think it is fair to say that Islam is a religion of violence. It is also fair to say that many of it's believers want peace.
Much the same applies to other religions.

The reason that western Christians kid themselves that their religion is peaceful, is that to a large extent they were on the winning side, and winners like a peaceful version of the status quo.
The term "Crusader" has a very different connotation to Moslems than Christians, "war criminal" is probably the best term. Which they were, the Crusaders not only attacked Moslems, but actually murdered their way into more Christian cities than ones held by their enemies.

in answer to the OP - very sad. how are we going to get more religious understanding that way?

"The British came to Ireland and took it all"
at last! a simple summary of the Irish question, and there was me thinking it was a bit more complicated than that
hmmm, well sort of

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Wow my head is spinning now with following these two arguments (in the non-bickering sense of a debate ) in one thread.

it was a bit doodle
it just made me laugh, that's all.
I am not Irish but my father was an Irish Catholic, brought up in Glasgow, I spent quite a bit of my childhood there so I know a bit, indirectly, about sectarianism.
I think the reasons for the power sharing happening now are complicated. and I think the debate shouldn't really be simplified to that extent, because it really was a complex matter arising over hundreds and hundreds of years

Message withdrawn

I do agree that relgious conflict in Ireland (and elsewhere) very often reflects or is superimposed on tribal rivalries.
but I think it relfects very badly on organised religion and religious in particular that, far from preaching peace, they stir up, deepen, encourage, make respectable and a matter of faith and even fund violence in the name of their religion or sect.
I am thinking of the "reverend" Paisley in particular but there are lots of examples

religios leaders I should say

Harpsi, well, he is a reverend I think. I've heard some of his sermons

He took a lot of flak from the unionists over the final deal, as I'm sure the Sinn Fein members did. I really hope it lasts long-term.

He reverended himself I think.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

I'm often tempted to do the same.