To be angry that parents won't allow their children to go on school visit to local mosque?

[ptangyangkipperbang]

DS2 is going on a school trip to the local mosque. However, the school nearly cancelled it because so many parents have refused to let their children go. I have only spoken to one parent who won't allow her child to go but she said "I'm not racist but...why should they visit a mosque when we daren't get a plane or go to a shopping centre because of that lot". Not racist .

Not sure about that.

Lots of IRA literature espoused a socialist-lefty type ideology. Very little about catholicism or holy wars. Although they played up that bit when seeking to raise money from credulous church-goers.

Peachy, correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the Old Testament about Jewish history, not Christian? Christianity came after the death of Christ when his disciples went out to spread his teachings which were based on his great commandment that usurped the original 10 commandments:

"Love one another as I have loved you".

The IRA was political IMO - it was an independence battle - a colonial thing (in their eyes). I don't think any of them were particularly religious. Is was tribal, really.
The Islamicist terrorism is different. That is explicitly religious.

Gosh, I'd always considered the IRA to be first and foremost a liberation (terrorist/freedom fighter) movement. It wouldn't have occurred to me until just now to think of them as a religious movement.

Sorry 'Islamist'.

so no consensus then lol

"Theres no way i would even let my kids learn about Islam or anything to do with muslims" - maybe naively would see that an an indication of a belief that Islam is inherantly more violent than otehr religions which I don't necessarily beleive to be the case.

I also believe that if you make such a statement you should expect it to be questioned... even by way of illustration comparing it to another world religion which is equally violent (in my view). Raising christianity in that context seems quite justifiable.

The whole thought of what Islam is all about scares me.

You can try and paint a pretty picture about it, but its not.

I could goon and on about the stuff i have learnt about this religion. But i dont want to be seen as a spreader of hate.

If you want to teach your kids about Islam and let them go into a mosque then you should tell them about all the voilence that goes with it.

As with any religion i suppose, but the islamic terrorists seem to be absolutly relentless.

Oh an Harpsichord, for me, it's more the "them and us" attitude that gets my goat. That the way to reinforce differences, not work to overcome them. I am just pointing out that in the great "them and us" argument, no "side" has clean hands, and that therefore, there may be less "them and us" than some people may think. I think I've already mentioned my atheistic credentials, so no parti pris here. I just dislike sloppy, reactive ad ill-considered opinions based on shaky evidence and prejudice.

That's most of the UK alienated then.

retires to cave

Kewcumber, i didnt say i didnt want my views questioned.

And anyone who puts a good point forward, dont think i am going to dismiss it.

Christianity has a shared root with Judaism- therefore Jewish history (and many of its teachings, eg Comamndments etc) feed into Christianity and therefore is usually referred to as Judaeo_vhristian History by epole more learned than me. Similarly Islam- there are changes there but essentially the History and Roots are the same, Abraham / Moses etc. PLus Jesus was a Jew- how could you follow Jesus without followinga spects of Judaism?

Of couse, my professor would argue that in amny ways christanity should be renamed Paul-ology but thats another debate and one I am ill equipped for!

I thought the Irish issue was primarily a land dispute. Which why they have been able to negotiate and come to some kind of compromise.

Not entirely sure that an Islamist terrorist has the same aims.

but that's a little off-topic.

Oh, and Christians do believe the OT too, they just have the NT which interprets some of the OT slightly differently.

..has lost the train of thought and checks thread title again

Islamist is the generallya ccepted convention for Muslim terrorists, rather than Islamic I think you'll find.

Message withdrawn

(I do agree you have to teach the violence as part of the history of any religion- but thats far from limited to Islam. I wouldnt yteach Hindu History without reference to Sati, for example)

Except that all the actual terrorists state very clearly that their motives are religious.

I am LOL at the idea that the IRA was a bunch of libertarian freedom fighters.
it is a sectarian divide, very deeply felt in Ireland and elsehwere along religious grounds. the IRA wanted to be "liberated" from protestant rule first and foremost.
and the loyalists didn't want to be subject to Catholic rule.
I would say that is a religious conflict.

MrsYoshi- if you want to be informed straight form the horse's mouth, that link is really very good you know. There is nothing more scary about Islam than any other religion when viewed historically. Islam is just more present in the news at the moment.

However viewed historically, the picture is somewhat less scary.

To wit, as I see it, and speaking largely off the top of my head as I should be working and haven't time to look it all up now:

Christianity founded year 0. Worst excesses arguably 700 to 1600 AD

Islam founded 700 AD. Worst excesses around now. That's 1300 years of relative peace vs only 700 years of relative peace for Christianity.

I thought that Christianity was an upgrade of Judaism. In the Old Testament it says an eye for eye but Christ taught that that was no longer the case and that one must turn the other cheek.

Message withdrawn

Only religious though in terms of that was how the groups were divided tribally. There was no explicit religious agenda, but a strong political one. The words libertarian and revolutionary etc are the terms in which the IRA saw themselves, not signifying approval of either its agenda or its repellent methods.

But then I could kill someone and claim it was in the name of Humanism but that shouldnt be allowed tor eflect on any otehr Humanists should it? The Qur'an teaches that people of the book should respected; people of the book include Christians, Jews, Muslims- hardly a principle the Islamists adhere to.

[http://www.islamdenouncesterrorism.com/people_of_the_book_the_muslims.html excellent site- Isalm Denounces terrorism]] which refers to this concept

They call themselves Jihadis, though, and martyrs. And they do state a fundamentally religious objective - the spreading of an Islamic state.
Now, of course, I would make it absolutely clear that to state that the terrorists are religious is not the same as to say that the religious are terrorists...but I know all you clever folk will take that as read [smil]