...do teachers really work that hard?

[User298895613]

I know the general idea on AIBU is that teachers work load is ridiculous, that they work extra hard and that they never never stop to the point that they r all seemingly leaving the profession.

But, AIBU to wonder if they are any different to anyone else? and actually might have it a bit easier? I mean, I also work myself into the ground, am exhausted, never stop etc... But I don't have summer holidays off to look after my kids, and I often work well into the small hours at night.

I'm not saying teachers don't work hard, but sometimes on munsnet I just feel like some teachers kind of spend a lot of time complaining about the workload, when maybe it's just the same as everyone elses, but with a nice long summer holiday?

(Sorry, I appreciate this will really inflame some posters, but it just had been annoying me lately)

I have done occasional teaching jobs in my life and otherwise have had a variety of jobs that don't involve teaching. The last teaching job was at a 6th form college where most of the staff were "off with stress" and thus I was asked to fill in for one of them. Spent a couple of months there and I can honestly say I have never, ever worked so hard for a very small wage. It's not just the teaching "contact hours" but the endless marking of homework and lesson planning, photocopying (including for kids who repeatedly "forgot" to bring in the first copy I gave them in the first lesson). At the end of my stint they asked me to stay in the post permanently but I refused as I simply couldn't sustain that level of energy. I told them they needed someone half my age (I was in my 40s) who had endless energy and patience.

I think that it’s really hard, and very badly paid, and that the holidays are the counterweight to that.

I dont really care whether its harder or easier than other jobs to be honest. All I can see is that the profession struggles to attract and retain well qualified good quality staff. So something is wrong. All the teachers leaving for other jobs dont rush back.

You can compare to anything. For me it's not about how hard they work but how little recognition of it, both financially and in general as the OP shows.
I think there are several professions where the stress, responsibility, hours etc are not reflected in the rates of pay - teaching is one, nursing, midwifery too.
I'm a GP so better paid (though nowhere near as much as people seem to think!), my DH does a job with almost identical hours, similar workflow but fee earning. He would agree our jobs are pretty similarly demanding but he earns over double my salary.

Teachers used to have a nice cushy job. Now its pretty much as hard and gruelling as every other one. Those who have been in the role for a long time find it hard to cope because they never signed up for a full workload and they are shouting the loudest.

When the change in expectations are fully bedded in then it will be seen as difficult a job as every other one. But certainly not particularly more so.

Walkingdeadgirl you crop up on most of these threads having a pop at teachers.

I work similar hours to my teacher sister, who works bloody hard. My job is also often stressful.

The difference is that my job is office-based. If I'm feeling a bit rough, I can choose to do something reasonably non-taxing, and can organise my breaks when I feel like it. If my sister feels a bit rough, she has no choice - she still has to deal with 30 pupils all day, with minimal breaks. So yes, I do think she has a tough job. It's not as tough as, say, working in A&E, but it's still tough.

Those who have been in the role for a long time find it hard to cope because they never signed up for a full workload

Eh? This is bullshit. The majority of teachers quit within 5 years and it certainly wasn’t a cushy job 5 years ago, so they definitely signed up for a full workload.

It also wasn’t a cushy job over a decade ago when I started. When is this ‘cushy’ time you are referring to?

Even ignoring the number of hours teachers work this might explain why they are so exhausted:
teacherhabits.com/why-teachers-are-so-tired-and-what-to-do-about-it/
An anecdotal example of how draining it can be: I had a friend who was doing a PhD, is one of the hardest working people I know and pulled long hours throughout her degree. She lectured for 3 hours once, then came home utterly exhausted and had to go to bed. She didn’t get the irony of telling me (a teacher of secondary school children) how tiring 3 hours of teaching willing adults was. 3 hours was less than my shortest day of teaching and I had to behaviour manage the kids in addition to teaching content.
Give teaching a try for a week and see how it compares to your job. If it’s better, then switch careers.

My cousin and her husband are both teachers. He's at an academy, she's at a first school. When l've been at their house l've lost count of the number of times he's been sitting marking/lesson planning etc after dinner until gone 10pm. Similarly, l've spent evenings/weekends with her helping to organise things for lessons, (Easter baskets, laminating things, making up folders of paperwork) and even crawling round on the floor cutting out costumes for Nativity plays.
They both frequently go into school at weekends and during the holidays, especially my cousin. l've spent days in there with her rearranging/decorating/setting up her classroom, as there simply isn't time to do it within school hours. Her eldest also goes in to help. l don't know if this is standard or not, but she gets one morning a week to do paperwork, which certainly isn't enough time, as she has a big class (30+) and also has the responsibility of arrangements etc for children with SEN. Her school is rural, and they also take the children out on overnight field trips, either camping in the woods (my worst nightmare, camping, with the responsibility of other people's children overnight in a public place!) or staying in hostels. With little ones being homesick, frightened, or not being able to sleep in a 'strange' place, and needing cuddles. Fortunately it's usually on Thursday/Fridays, so she has the chance of decent sleep at the weekend to catch up.
My other friend runs a nursery. And if she was paid for all the hours she actually works, they couldn't afford her.
They all spend their own money on supplies that otherwise wouldn't be provided. l know that isn't 'part of the job' but they do it because they're decent people.

But User you are just showing what has been demonstrated on MN for YEARS, that as an outsider you get to comment on whether you think a job is difficult or not. And it is always teachers. It is never, well these nurses get loads of time off between their shifts.

I would love to know what you do for a living so people could make some completely unfounded remarks about your life/job balance.

All the gobby parents in the playground at primary school criticising a teacher have usually never once stepped inside a classroom.

Sadly "School" program that was on BBC iplayer has gone but may have opened your eyes to the realities of school life in secondary school.

I myself have the greatest respect for teachers. I volunteer as a TA in a primary school. I know the work involved in planning lessons and differentiation for abilities, the endless data collection, behavioural management of out of control children and the resources that go into that.

My eldest son is in year 11 the teachers are falling over themselves to help all students attain the grades they want. Revision resources, revision sessions.

And on MN many teachers post helpful posts guiding us to resources, how to improve x,y,z for our children, going beyond the classroom for the parents who care to ask. They don't switch it off.

I think teaching is a vocation, no one does it for the money or the holidays. Maybe volunteer to go into a school and open your eyes.

I wonder what the effect on the psyche is of not only doing a difficult job but being repeatedly told you are shit and not deserving of respect and should count yourself lucky to have your job.

The ones I know don't work to the extremes I see described on here.
Many do ppa at home to assist with childcare, they are generally home by 4:30, they rarely do work in school holidays.
That's not to say that they don't work incredibly hard but they aren't full on flat out with barely any family life. The two I am closest too have never for example missed their child's concerts or sports.
Most I know have had a term time holiday at some point, not annually obviously but it's not unthinkable as I see posted on here.
One deputy head I know manages to be incredibly successful in her hobby competing most weekends and training four nights a week.

I think it’s the constant scrutiny that is so draining. Book scrutinies, learning walks, formal observations etc. Also the pressure and anxiety of the huge safeguarding responsibility we hold as teachers. This is on top of the 25 actual contact teaching hours I do per week (not including meetings X2, assemblies, cover and extra curricular activities X3-5 weekly depending on time of year.) I also manage 8 members of part time staff, and lead a subject school wide. Data drops or full reports every half term, 3/4 parents evenings per term, concerts, school discos, Christmas/summer fairs, school trips etc etc etc. Sadly day by day planning is my last priority, but all my SoW and resources are so well organised that I can pick up and print what I need when I need it and it just takes some tweaking. That’s taken 12 years of full time teaching to be able to do that though. If I wasn’t able to do that I would not be able to do my job as the workload is insane Do I work harder than other people? Probably not, I’m actually secretly quite lazy but efficient through necessity and can cut corners in some ways because of the subject I teach. however the stress of teaching literally makes my head buzz. It is so intense and you are never ever finished. Am off this week but was awake at 6am worrying about work on the flip side I love the kids and my subject and have a great time in the classroom so I’ll be sticking at it for now...

I’m married to a teacher, he leaves the house at 7am and comes home after 6 everyday. Most nights he works about 2 hours on top of this, he takes 1 day off at the weekend as he works all day the other. Half term holiday he’ll be off 9 days total including weekends, he’ll be working for half of that time so really he’ll get 4 full days off. Summer holidays the last week of the holidays is spent working and winding back up to start in September. He might only be contracted to work 195 days (or whatever it is) a year but the reality is if you add on all the extra hours he works a day and days he works in holidays he’ll be down to 5 weeks holiday for much shitter pay than someone else who as in my husband’s case has an undergrad degree, a masters as well as a pgce. Of course lots of other jobs people are working very very long hours in difficult conditions, my mum is a nurse and has been all her life, she works 12 hour shifts but once she comes home she’s done, her days off are off not working preparing to go to work the next day.

I honestly wish my husband hadn’t chosen teaching, he’s missing out on so much of his own children’s lives locking himself away working constantly. The nice long summer holidays are probably the only benefit to teaching and even then if we want to go on holiday we have to pay the hiked prices (our children are under 3). He more than deserves those 5 weeks off to actually spend some time with his own family.

Cbatothink
Please don’t go there with the acting. There’s a lot more to it then just the performances. I’ve done a bit of both. Although the teaching was half a class as I was an English assistant but I was treated like a supply teacher... go and get on with it and taught my materials to 15 secondary school kids 15-19 alone when I was 20/21. So I know a little of both sides. And the energy required for a performances is are a lot more intense. Then you’ve got to learn your lines (no mean feat), create your character, work on your back story, research, rehearse a lot, perhaps learn new skills for the particular part, travel etc. Not to mention years of training.

Yes they do.

How the hell does a full time teacher take a term time holiday?!

Also, how do I get time off on my teaching days to see concerts/sports days. I've not made ones unless it was the day I don't work.

Asking for a friend

That's absolute rot dai. there is no way a teacher can take a term time holiday! I have been teaching more than 25 years and the only example I know of was 18 years ago when a colleague took the last two weeks of term off unpaid to compete in a rock climbing thing.

I like the way teachers are only working very very hard if they are recived to work 'to extremes'... why on earth in this country are we so competitve about workaholism!?

Most I know have had a term time holiday at some point, not annually obviously but it's not unthinkable as I see posted on here.

Where are these schools? A teacher having time off during term time for a holiday isn't something i've ever come across.

Also ref PPA at home : also does not happen... if you are lucky you might be able to sneak out but I knwo many people who have been told off for this. It ceratinly is not the same as 'working from home' and would not be allowed to be combined with one's own childcare. You'd probably be made to go part time if you did that.

Morning all. Just dropping by to say thanks for the reports about this one. And yes, it's a bit of a goady OP but we can see it's been robustly challenged. We'll keep it up for now, but please give us a nudge if the Talk guidelines get too bent out of shape.

Most I know have had a term time holiday at some point, not annually obviously but it's not unthinkable as I see posted on here
Daipaned over 20 years of teaching and have known this happen once for a teacher who had booked her honeymoon while working in a different region (so, different holidays) than the one she then moved to. It really is unthinkable. Unless you’re signed off with stress, I suppose...

Term time holidays, PPA at home, time off to see children’s concerts and sports and home by 4:30?

Yeah, that’s nothing like normal. If it was there wouldn’t be a teacher shortage crisis!

I don't know either ice but I am off to book at a nice cheap time (Say, early June?) and see what happens!