...do teachers really work that hard?

[User298895613]

I know the general idea on AIBU is that teachers work load is ridiculous, that they work extra hard and that they never never stop to the point that they r all seemingly leaving the profession.

But, AIBU to wonder if they are any different to anyone else? and actually might have it a bit easier? I mean, I also work myself into the ground, am exhausted, never stop etc... But I don't have summer holidays off to look after my kids, and I often work well into the small hours at night.

I'm not saying teachers don't work hard, but sometimes on munsnet I just feel like some teachers kind of spend a lot of time complaining about the workload, when maybe it's just the same as everyone elses, but with a nice long summer holiday?

(Sorry, I appreciate this will really inflame some posters, but it just had been annoying me lately)

"Teachers do seem to have a complex and like to complain to everyone about how hard done by they are " - no they don't. That's your prejudice.

I’m a teacher and I do work very hard with very long hours. It’s a tough job with little thanks. I have friends and family in all sorts of jobs that work extremely hard too. I don’t think my job is any harder than anyone else’s, I just resent the concept that my job is easy and my holidays are long and amazing

Ps if you want to, we have a teacher shortage and you could do it too?

I used to read about the teachers' workload on MN. Then DD became a teacher.
She works, on average 80 hours a week, including all the half terms and most of the Christmas and Easter holidays. She has a break in the summer but not six weeks.
If you work out the average weekly hours worked over the year, including the fact that most teachers work through most of the holidays they end up with an hourly rate less than minimum wage

Teachers get no contact time, ta's to help in the classroom, often free periods, 12 weeks holiday a year (more in the private sector) - yes I think they have a good life.

Teachers get no contact time, ta's to help in the classroom, often free periods,

Don’t have TAs.
What’s the problem with 2 free periods a week? I don’t have a coffee in that time I catch up with students or mark/plan/have a meeting. What a strange thing to resent!

Did the op start a goady post and not come back by any chance?

@LadyKalila I'd like your informed opinion on why there is a huge teacher shortage, and why teachers are leaving in droves? What's that all about then?

my partner is a maths teacher at an outstanding state school, he's 3 years post qualified and as a result has all his resources pretty much done. He starts at around 8, leaves by 345 and doesn't bring work home on weekends except whenever they do tests which he marks. His work load is far less than mine. His day might be stressful managing disobedient kids but his workload isn't bad at all. He even says he thinks teachers just moan for the sake of it, except for primary teachers who have it a lot worse than secondary and english teachers because of the marking.

wind-up Wednesdays

When I was working full-time I used to teach 300 children a week. 32 children to a class, with most lessons only 35 minutes long, by the end of which you need a clear understanding of whether each and every student has gained the learning outcomes that you planned for that lesson.

As well as an intense teaching timetable, teachers have a lot of planning and marking to do. That might be 200 pieces of homework to mark every week, as well as making resources for the lessons planned. Every lesson must include clear learning goals that are closely tied to a scheme of work that you have also created as an overview for the topic, differentiation for the range of abilities, SEN and different learning styles.

A lot of teachers are perfectionists. I used to spend hours every week making exquisite resources, thinking I would use them again, only to find that there is a decision to teach a different syllabus and I will need to start from scratch next year. Once I had children I had to manage my time more carefully and make compromises, because a teacher's timetable allows insufficient non-contact time. Even as a part-time teacher, I often have a splitting headache by Friday afternoon. Not because my students are troublesome - they are really very lovely - but because it is such an intense week.

‘‘Twas a piece of piss. Anyone could do it.

That’s why it brought me to a breakdown it’s taken me five years to recover from.

I'm an English teacher. So glad that I am allowed to moan. Will crack on with this once I have done my marking.

he's 3 years post qualified and as a result has all his resources pretty much done.

I’m more than a decade post-qualified as a maths teacher and it’s pretty funny to me that he thinks this is the case.

The workload is phenomenal. I do supply work now and even just that - the mental load of being "on" completely for the school day and constant behaviour management, pre-empting any kids who look like they might be heading towards losing focus somewhat, constantly assessing who's got the concept and who hasn't so you know who to keep back into assembly time for some more consolidation work and the constant division of attention in 30 different directions is mentally draining... but that part is the part that people who stick it out in the classroom love as it does still give you a huge buzz doing all of that and it all slotting into place for a lesson that goes really well.

But since I left full-time work the paperwork and the data load has increased to levels that are beyond bonkersness. I'm also a school governor and the level of reporting and accountability from the subject leads that we now get is insane (and I do constantly question if we need all of it or how the staff can get their work-life balance back - I'm not some kind of arsehole who's impressed by extraneous pie charts). Most of the staff at the school I'm a parent governor at are in school by 7am... still there well after 5pm - and lots still there to do after school stuff as well.

I am seriously in awe of how utterly superb the teaching staff our school has are to be honest (I've told a couple of them I'm actually jealous they're so bloody good in front of a class)... and I do what I can as a volunteer to try to help out and take on the more time-intensive daft bits and bobs like gluing things into books and whatever.

It was a tough but do-able job when I was working full time and took its toll on your mental health - but now it's just reached absolute insanity levels.

One of my parents was a teacher. Teaching was the first career choice I ruled out.

we when I was teaching I went back on a 60% contact after having my dc1, yet the head told me I was under no circumstances to be seen leaving the site at the same time as the children in order to pick my baby up from childcare, because it gave parents the wrong impression! If I was teaching last period I had to stay on site til at least 4:30pm even though I was part time.

The curriculum changes a lot but also the needs of every class are different so few teachers in England reuse their resources unaltered, especially 3 years post qualification.

Unless maths is a special skive subject.

You work yourself into the ground and never stop OP? And yet you have time to be mumsnetting at 9:15 on a Monday morning? Oh go on, back-pedal quickly and tell us you’re on annual leave! If so, you must be very bitter to be using your precious time off thinking up goady posts

FWIW I have just retired from teaching. It’s a tough job, no doubt about it. A typical day for me was 7.30 am to 5.30/6pm actually in work, and then whatever prep and marking needed outside that. No way would I be mumsnetting on a Monday morning- no time for that!

That doesn’t mean I don’t think other people work hard - of course they do. And many people put in the 50/60 hour weeks that teachers routinely do. however I think the unique stress of teaching is that you’re basically performing, without a moments let up to an audience of 30 plus teenagers (or little kiddies if you’re primary) Many of them probably don’t want to be there, and they are unforgiving! If you’re a GP, dentist, lawyer, you’re working hard in a role that can be stressful but you’re dealing with one client/ case at a time. Try juggling the varying needs of 30 + individuals... and yes, you are expected to cater to individual needs to demonstrate their progress and attainment. Add into the mix the parents who email every 5 mins to ask why you told little Johnny off cos he didn’t do anything don’t you know (he disrupted your lesson, swore at another pupil and then refused point blank to work)

The closest thing I’d liken teaching to is performing - with the difference that if you’re an actor you have one 3 hour performance a day, maybe 2 on matinee days, and you don’t have to write, adjust and review your script before and after every performance to meet various objectives.

Since retiring from teaching I’ve worked 3 days a week in a role where I deal with maybe 3 or 4 cases simultaneously, I start work when I get into the office at 8.45 and leave work behind when i go at 5. Oh and I get a 30 minute lunch break. It’s a revelation. I cannot believe how easy and stress free my days are.

If you really feel teaching isn’t that bad, why don’t you do a PGCE and go get a teaching job OP? Thought not.

That was meant to be to willieverthinkofaname

Oh I love a good teacher bashing from someone with no idea.
Is it because everyone has experienced school at some point in life so therefore think that they know best? Is it because when you drop your child off at 9am and return at 3pm it feels like the day has flown by?

I am a secondary teacher. Besides the fact that yes, we work bloody hard, we don’t get paid for most of it. Hence the ‘holidays’ or time in leu really.
My salary is based on me working from 8:10 - 3:10 for 5 days per week. We don’t get paid for those ‘extras’. Like arriving at school each day at 7am to plan and prep for the day, the half termly parents evenings/events, the marking after work, the weekend planning. Not paid for, would you do that OP?

How about all the other ‘extras’ like the time spent with vulnerable students, counselling parents and ensuring wellbeing. The pens, toilet roll and school shoes I buy for students each week.

If only my job was simply teaching the 30 teenagers sat in front of me. By the time most people have started work at 9am teachers have planned, prepped, attended a morning briefing, spoken to numerous parents, possibly sorted about a fight, replied to emails and ensured that the quiet girl in your form has eaten breakfast. And that’s before we teach 5 lessons a day.

I apologise for the rant. I really do hate teacher bashes. One friend recently told me that we have pretty much the same job because he gives PowerPoint presentations at work in his IT role.

My friend did SCITT training last year. She’s tough as old boots. She found a job in a primary school, where they gave her no support and her counterpart in the other year group did her best to sabotage my friend.

Paperwork is already ridiculous and big brother. This school has additional procedures and paperwork for internal purposes and she was so busy she literally was unable to cook for her family during the week. She got signed off with stress, went back, it didn’t improve and resigned.

Now if someone like this can be broken I totally see teaching isn’t for the foolhardy. Of course my friend will get another job and has beeen supply teaching since xmas. Supply teaching is paid considerably less but may or may not be on a teach the material provided basis with or without no marking..

She’s also said several of the people on her course are hanging on by a thread despite having more support. Some don’t make it as far as this stage, others falter in the first year and many teachers become disillusioned don’t teach for years.

So no I don’t think it’s easy. Long hours in the week. Summer holidays aren’t a massive break. They’re spend holidays on prep for the next year and courses.

Dh was made redundant last year. He considered teaching and I sought advice on here. The consensus was no. It is so badly paid in comparison to dhs worth in industry that he found another job. He was doing crazy hours in his last company and now works less than the average teacher, I’m sure.

I am self-employed. This means people think I am contactable 24/7. I also work way more hours behind the scenes than the hours people see. Unless I go away on holiday, I never get a proper break, because people don't consider a self-employed person as being on holiday unless they are physically not there. I also earn significantly less than a teacher.

And there is NO WAY on this earth that I would swap what I do to be a teacher, despite their higher pay and longer holidays.

Not a chance.

Anyone that thinks it isn't really hard work is either trolling, an idiot, or doesn't know any teachers very well.

I suspect teachers seem to complain more about their workloads because of their pay levels and the fact that they have to deal with (horrible) kids!

Lawyers and doctors less so because although they have as heavy or heavier workloads/longer hours/more stressful careers their pay is at least (generally) at a level where you can see why it is worthwhile putting yourself through it.

I'd rather be a teacher than a nurse.

Longer hours, more responsibility, less pay, harder work, no longer holidays etc

I really can't see the argument here.

I'm not a teacher but several friends and family members are.

As an outsider looking in, my impression is that they work extremely hard but that the workload is comparable to that in some other professions. The difference is that teachers don't get paid anywhere near as much as people in most of those professions.