...do teachers really work that hard?

[User298895613]

I know the general idea on AIBU is that teachers work load is ridiculous, that they work extra hard and that they never never stop to the point that they r all seemingly leaving the profession.

But, AIBU to wonder if they are any different to anyone else? and actually might have it a bit easier? I mean, I also work myself into the ground, am exhausted, never stop etc... But I don't have summer holidays off to look after my kids, and I often work well into the small hours at night.

I'm not saying teachers don't work hard, but sometimes on munsnet I just feel like some teachers kind of spend a lot of time complaining about the workload, when maybe it's just the same as everyone elses, but with a nice long summer holiday?

(Sorry, I appreciate this will really inflame some posters, but it just had been annoying me lately)

My sister is a teacher in the US. She doesn't work particularly hard, as she will be the first to say, and her pay and benefits are great. In the US, it varies tremendously depending on where you live.

OP, is your salary more or less than the average teacher salary? I think you may have a slight point in terms of pure workload bing comparable to some professions but teachers are not paid enough for what they have to put up with as part of that workload.

Do you genuinely think that most teachers are work shy and lazy, and don't understand what a normal amount of work is?

Before teaching I worked in business, and after leaving teaching I work back in business. I have never worked harder than when I was teaching, plus I've never been so pressurised by management to produce constant outstanding results. I have gladly and happily swapped the longer holidays for 25 days of holiday and I'm so much less stressed and do massively less work whilst still achieving and delivering quality for my employers. I actually feel like I have 100% more free time now, as I don't work 2 hours plus every evening after coming home, don't work one day every weekend, no parents evenings or open days and so on.

I know a lot of people who went in to teaching after uni (did a languages degree). About 50% are still teachers. The others have left to work in business. I never would have considered it, as I could start in the commercial world at a decent level straight out of uni given the language skills. The teachers I knew earnt around the same as me when I first graduated. Yes they had a good pension and their student loan paid off, but I think even if the salaries were much higher it’s not something I’d want to do. It seems like very hard work that everyone feels free to criticise. On top of that the government are endlessly tinkering around with teaching making it harder and harder

I’m a teacher, I certainly don’t think I’m in the only profession that works hard/has a stressful job etc (I did nursing to begin with so I have some insight into that) but I’m never done, there’s always something else, you’re constantly trying to get to the bottom of the to do list but you never do. Holidays are great yes but I spend a part of each recovering from the term then working towards the next.

The lack of respect from so many parents & society in general, plus increasing numbers of children requiring support (ASN and general difficulties due to background, parenting etc) makes it harder now than when I started 15 years ago. It’s also increasingly depressing seeing how the education system has and continues to change (not often for the better).

These threads are so frustrating. I used to be a teacher. I got to school at 7:30am, left around 4. Went home, ate something, and carried on working. Saturday was my only day off, because I spent Sundays marking and planning. The last school year I taught, I had one week of holiday in the summer, because the rest of the summer was devoted to professional development courses, as well as planning for a new year group.

When I had my children, I decided that teaching was absolutely not going to work with a family. I still work in a school, but in a non-teaching role, and when I get a bit nostalgic for the classroom, I pay attention to my colleagues who eat lunch at their desks while sorting out troubled students, mark assignments until the early hours, and take on exam board marking to earn extra money(and that can go on well into the summer holidays).

Don't knock it til you try it...other professions may be a lot harder, but I bet those employees get to have a wee whenever they need one!

Have you seen what they have to do? I mean even if you ignore all the extra work that goes into lesson plans, marking, setting homework etc etc, they have to deal with a room full of children all day. ALL DAY. I quite like my own children, I don’t mind spending a whole day looking after them. I would absolutely mind having to look after a room full of everyone else’s children AND being expected to manage to teach them something that isn’t “how to make the teacher cry before 10am”. Children are savages, bigger children are worse. I know because I was one- in fact I was one of the well behaved ones and I’m still fairly certain I was a nightmare. And to think people do it because they like it!! As far as I can see they don’t get paid nearly enough for just that bit, nevermind all the other stuff that has to be done in their own time.

A lot of parents also fail to appreciate the work Teachers do in ensuring their DC have enrichment opportunities outside of the curriculum. One of my Teacher friends is in charge of Duke of Edinburgh awards, which creates hours of extra admin, in addition to his normal workload. He doesn't get paid extra for taking on this responsibility, or for the hikes and camping trips he has to take Students on so they can complete their awards. He does it because if he didn't then the students wouldn't have that opportunity. Same with clubs and after-school activities, these things take planning and organisation, that all eats into what little free time Teachers have.

Not to mention residential trips that happen at weekends or over half term. Staff at our school who volunteer for these trips don't get paid for their time, they don't get time off in lieu and they have the stress of being responsible for a load of over excited teenagers in an unfamiliar environment! My idea of hell but they do it because they're dedicated to their jobs and they know the kids love it.

Yes. I love it, but it's quite stressful, though not ”junior doctor” stress, obviously! It would be easier to cope with if there wasn't such a lack of money for even basic stuff like textbooks and paper. If you didn't have to guard that stuff like it was gold while you have a group of Y10s intent on performing the ”pritstick on the ceiling” trick then it would be better. Also if I could happily lose the parents that come in to throw a wobbly at you for some uniform policy that you didn't come up with, and they happily signed up to, but now little Asterix and Martha will only wear skinny jeans so we are the unreasonable bastards.

Goady post, but happy to get it off my chest

Speaking as someone who is friends with a teacher not only does she actually plan all the lessons, teach the kids and millions of other things but then she has to spend hours and hours writing down where she has done all of these things for ofsted. It goes well beyond stuff in the classroom.

Lots of jobs and professions involve very hard work (I could never cope with working in the NHS, police, fire etc) but I think the misconception with teaching is that we get a good deal to compensate for the long hours. A teacher's salary is based on working 1265 hours over 195 days, which if that were the case would be a fantastic package. However that equates to a 6.5 hour day term time only which would mean rolling up at 8.30am and going at 4pm every single day (allowing for lunch) which would make it impossible to do the job even half well.

However the job has its perks and I only moan with other teachers as we could be a hell of a lot worse off. We can be flexible with our (unpaid) working time outside of hours and the holidays, although spent catching up a lot of the time, are still ours to deploy as we want. I like the staff and students where I work so the actual day to day classroom stuff is very rewarding most of the time which is more than can be said for many jobs. We have good terms and conditions for sick, maternity etc which you wouldn't get in the private sector.

In short, yes teachers work a lot harder than many people realise but that doesn't mean we have a monopoly on it or need to be martyrs. Equally the job was a lot easier 15 years ago when I started as you were busy at predictable intervals (mocks, coursework, revision, reports) rather than constantly working flat out and undeeore pressure as we are now. The recruitment and retention situation is so bad at the moment that I am seriously considering if I want my future children to go through state education, 5 years ago I would have laughed at you if you suggested this but now I'm not so sure.

PS posting this in a 15 minute brain break on a planning session as I've gone in feeling ill today (not contagious) because it's easier to go in and take it steady than it is to try to find something meaningful and useful for all the classes to do in my absence.

Wow, goady post or what?!

Let me say this: I govern for a primary school in an area of severe deprivation.

I am in awe of the teachers who work at my school, the pressure is immense, because they’re not only teachers, they’re responsible (in part) for the whole child, that means their physical and emotional health, their mental health, any issues that get picked up from the child, ie, unstable home life etc. Then, when that isn’t quite enough, there’s the pressure of attainment, parents with unrealistic expectations of the teachers... one I heard this week “I don’t read to him at home because it’s your job as his teacher to reach him for me”. So already, that pupil is at a disadvantage, but the teacher must find a way to make sure that he makes a reasonable level of progress!!!

In short, yes, YABU, teaching is a hard profession that members are leaving in droves, because of the workload!!

It depends on your job and the teacher!
I teach secondary 3 days a week. Currently have a 2 year old, am 7 months pregnant and don't have the best health so my commitments will obviously be different to some.
My working days generally go with:

7.15 - drive to work. (Before this combined effort with DH getting DS ready, walking dog etc). Journey is about 45mins.
Teach from 8.30-12.30 with a 20 minute break but 2 out of the 3 days I am on duty for half of this and also have to change classrooms, run detentions and sort resources so limited as a break.
12.30-1.30 lunch ( I am really lucky to get the full hour. Everyone else gets 30 minutes but I have it protected because of health). Still need to sort classroom and resources etc for the afternoon.
Teach until 3.30. I do get 2 50 minute frees in my week to plan lessons etc.
3.30- up until 5. Revision lesson, staff meeting or detention depending on the day. If I am done before 5 its marking/planning.
5.45- get home. Normal family stuff. DS is usually in bed by 8.
8 -10 Marking and planning.
10.30 bed

I try to keep my days off work free as I choose to take the pay cut I should take the work cut in theory! Typically I need to do about an hour in the evenings to respond tp emails etc.
At the weekends I do about 3 hours work across the 2 days. My holidays I probably work on about 1 and half days per week.

As I've said each teacher has their own situation. I cut down on the time I could commit when I had children. Some teachers seem to keep up the marking, teach amazing lessons and have 3 children offers spend evey night marking until midnight and are in school every day of the holidays get get the same results.

On top of the standard workload sport activities after school clubs, discos residential trips etc are all expected to be covered and I've never known an activity not to run because I teacher wasn't willing to give up their own time. Its a dedicated job.

IMO based on myself, my DP(a primary teacher) and those I work with teaching is really hard and you do work long hours and can't switch off but its also well paid and the holidays do help you balance out the workload over the year.

But, AIBU to wonder if they are any different to anyone else?

Well the issue isn’t whether they’re over worked IMO.

The issue is that they’re over worked, underpaid and subject to scrutiny every five minutes.

Imagine having a daily appraisal by your manager? Someone watching you do your job? People telling you they could do your job better even though they’ve never done it......

It’s not just the workload but the whole demoralising context.

It’s not that hard to understand surely? They’re not unique but it doesn’t take away from the fact that they’re unappreciated.

Why else do you think there’s a retention crisis.

I'd work in Scotland. There's no way any teacher up here is working 90hrs a week...i just wouldn't believe it.

Yes I'm busier at some points in the ywar but i never work holidays or weekends. I manage my time well and might stay till 5. At other points when study leave is on I can be away at 4 with no extra work.

Also, I really don't see posts here started by teachers complaining about their workload. I see posts like yours having a go at teachers that you perceive as moaning all the time, and then teachers defending themselves.

Teachers here usually stick to posting in The Staffroom topic, with totally reasonable posts about their work related stresses.

Obviously what I intend to do is meaningful and useful too, that came out wrong! There are things you can do as an established teacher with good relationships and resources to get through a tough day while still giving students a useful hour that you just can't as supply, is what I mean.

I’ve got a few friends who were/are teachers. One said she went into teaching as “It was the only job I could get with a decent wage with a 2:2”. She said the planning etc was OK if you were organised. She taught 7-9 year olds. She left teaching as her and her DH decided to move abroad.

I had two other friends who both left after a couple of years as they hated the paperwork, the endless budget cuts (one was having to buy stationery from her own money) and the fact that they were spending more time with other people’s children than their own.

I have another friend who is in a very high-powered job and she complains about long hours and stress but is paid very well. Teaching salaries aren’t fantastic. I’ve worked in 2 sixth form colleges as support staff and often though they if I wanted to teach that’s what I’d do as the kids have at least chosen to be there.

This argument really boils my blood. I have teachers in the family and they work SO hard. It's not some cushy little 8-3:30 job. They often get up in the early hours of the morning to do work before going into school, stay late in school to mark, and then often work after dinner to plan. It's also a 7 day week due to work needing to be taken home. Even school holidays aren't some blissful 6 week long period of doing nothing - there's still work to do, often accompanied by a huge sense of dread and anxiety about returning to work. Not only because the government are making the job more and more impossible, but also due to the attitudes of a lot of parents. I work in the NHS and despite crap pay, shift work and often not getting a chance to eat or use the loo, you couldn't pay me enough to teach.

OP? OP?! Where have you gone random user name?

All of the professions that rely on government funding are generally at crisis point and being made almost impossible for those on the front line. Increased work and less favorable working conditions due to chronic underfunding and government tinkering with stupid requirements that don’t relate to the core job accompanied by no realistic pay rise in sight. I don’t think teachers claim to have a monopoly on work related misery, but the information available makes it clear it’s a lot of work and stress for relatively little pay. Given that it requires a degree, most people can find better packages in the business sector and most are hence the staffing shortages.

The holidays might be generous, but most teachers say they have to work during them anyway and it’s incredibly restrictive the rest of the time. No cheeky long weekends when you fancy them and a constant inability to attend things during term time.

If it was so great, there would be more teachers than jobs which isn’t the case. As pp have said, it always ends up being a race to the bottom once job misery comparisons start being offered!

It’s not the workload that makes teaching stressful.
I don’t think the OP really deserves any more comments people, we are always saying teachers only comment on our jobs being hard in response to others slagging it, but we are giving others a whole thread of “my job’s so hard” in response to a fuckwit of an OP who is probably on half term themselves.

Typical goads poster; makes a stupid remark, back off for ages before coming back the tell everyone that they are being unfair to her.

Your brave 🙈

I think it’s like any profession. You get people who work themselves crazy and others who don’t give a fuck.

Teachers do seem to have a complex and like to complain to everyone about how hard done by they are (even though the situation has been dire for ages and they still chose to enter the profession).

That being said, not a job I could do or want and I do really appreciate all the good ones

Who scheduled the goady fucker in for 9am on a Monday morning?