To think this is not good enough from ds's teacher

[edgedandtaken]

I never thought I would start a thread like this but I am worried about one of ds's teachers and his relationship with ds. Ds is in Y7 and is passionate about this subject. He reads books aimed at adults about it and really does know his stuff. He's a bright boy anyway and I have always worried he may be arrogant at school but have always been told that he is 'lovely' and not in the least arrogant. He can be bloody rude to me about my lack of knowledge, but I think he knows not to talk to others the way he talks to me!

When he first started this subject he loved it and the teacher. At the end of the unit he got 100% in the test. It's a humanity/arts type subject. The class then spent a whole lesson improving their work but ds only had 2 spellings to correct. I thought that was poor, but ds told me he had wanted to read the books in the teacher's room and I told him to take more responsibility for himself and that he should have asked the teacher and/or just read one of the books in any case. I did think it was poor ds wasn't given an extension task, but not the end of the world.

This term ds has been less and less enthusiastic about the subject, which is a shame as he really does love it. He claims not to have learnt anything but acknowledges that it's not the teacher's fault as he has to cover the curriculum that ds already knows.

However, twice he has spotted errors in powerpoints and politely pointed them out to the teacher, who has told him he is wrong. He's not - he has described the errors to me and ds is right. I know that correcting teachers isn't ideal, but ds is adamant that he is polite about it and doesn't believe the teacher himself made the powerpoint (I'm not so sure). However, he is losing respect for the teacher because he has denied what ds knows is right. To clarify, ds pointed out the error, the teacher said no then ds said nothing else but was left wondering whether the teacher knows his stuff and if so why he isn't acknowledging the mistakes and if not, where does that leave ds?

They have just done another test and ds has been given 38/40, which is great, but on the paper there is no indication of where he lost the marks and no targets have been set. They haven't done improvements this time, but ds isn't clear on what he did wrong. I know he's not going to get full marks all the time but surely he should be told where he went wrong.

AIBU to think there may be a problem with this subject/teacher and if so what should I do? It seems such a shame that a subject he was passionate about is now something he is not enjoying at all.

Does your child point out mistakes in the middle of the lesson?

Are you honestly telling me your child knows more than a teacher with a degree in this subject too?

And yes, we do often use PowerPoint from other staff, we share them.

Your ds sounds rude and annoying to me and slightly arrogant.

Wow if your ds knows more than a teacher with a degree or masters in the subject/field at age 11, he must be extraordinary!

You've admitted your ds can be 'bloody rude' to you, sounds like he's doing it at school too.

MissMarplesKnitting
Where does it say the teacher has a degree in the subject ? Even if they do, when did a degree stop you making mistakes? I would my errors pointed out at the time and politely rather than at the end of a lesson when I've just finished teaching 30 kids something that is incorrect

Look, I'm not saying ds knows more than the teacher about this entire subject. In fact, ds has told me the teacher's specialism is not the topic they are currently doing. Ds actually wants to learn more, he doesn't go in happy to know it all. I know ds has never been rude in class up until now, if he is being I'll deal with it. But my sense of what is happening is that he's being somewhat crushed, which isn't good. I'm amazed no one so far thinks it's bad an able child isn't being stretched...

Rude and annoying, maybe. But if he's right, he's right. Teachers should be prepared to own it if they have got their facts wrong.
I remember my son telling a history teacher she was wrong when she said USSR stood for United States of Soviet Russia.
She didn't own it either.

My DB used to have problems like this. He missed nearly a whole term at school and came back just in time to do a test in a particular subject. He had read all about it in books, so got the highest mark in the test.

The teacher was peed off.

I think your DS' teacher might be insecure.

It is bad he isn't being stretched. Ask for a meeting with teacher and ask for extension tasks. Dont let them fob you off. They have a responsibility to differentiate for him and they are failing him.

If it's secondary then it's normal for teachers to have a degree in the subject they teach. We do occasionally teach outside specialisms and therefore are a bit reliant on the lessons of others.

I think your son needs to think about the way he comes across. He may just be being keen etc but ge may come across as being a cocky little know it all, which is hardly conducive to good relationships if this is the case. Without knowing him obviously one cannot discern.

He's in year 7 and getting top marks so don't get too stressed. There should be some stretch and challenge work being set via homework or other tasks anyway and if not, ask for some. We set termly challenge projects the kids work at their target levels but then they can go above and beyond big they choose to. He sounds like he's relish this.

Your child is being rude, disruptive and is undermining the teachers authority.

And honestly, complaining about a 2 point drop in marks is way, way over the top. As students get older in arts/humanities classes, they no longer work in a way where top marks or 100% are expected or will happen. In those sort of subjects they move from rote learning facts for tests and are supposed to be moving to a more analytical way of learning. That will certainly be the case in Y7.

Your son sounds like he needs a lesson in good manners.

I have a year 10 student who constantly tries to correct me (she came from another school in a different country, where she had learned some of the topics before). She is always mistaken and confusing things but doesn’t stop. It is draining and it fills me with dread to say her name when she raises her hand, because the other students laugh and mock her behind her back. How sure are you that your ds isn’t misinterpreting the wording on the PowerPoint? In year 7 the content will be very very straightforward and I doubt the teacher (who most likely teaches the subject up to A-level) is wrong?

God I'm glad he's not in my class.

Your child is being rude, disruptive and is undermining the teachers authority.

He isn't being the first two and I honestly think the teacher is doing the latter himself if he's making errors and not owning them.

I didn't complain about dropping two marks, I complained that ds was not told where he had gone wrong. I have an arts degree myself and told ds after the first test not to expect 100% every time.

Your child will probably have a different teacher next year, and from your description he could already pass the GCSE anyway. Have you considered approaching the school and asking if you could pay for him to be entered early?

I’d encourage your child to keep researching in his own time and to take some library books to the lessons with him, I’d check with the teacher that it’s ok for him to do some private reading as an extension task when he’s completed his work. The teacher would probably be delighted as it would mean no extra work for him. Also, is there a club at school related to this subject? If not, maybe approach the school and ask them to either consider starting one or to point you in the direction of one.

I think you’ll get the best response from the school if you approach them offering solutions rather than problems and without being overly critical.

But my sense of what is happening is that he's being somewhat crushed, which isn't good. I'm amazed no one so far thinks it's bad an able child isn't being stretched..

If you feel your child isn’t having his educational needs met then ring the school and ask for an appointment to discuss it. Like everybody else does.

Your low opinion of the teacher has no bearing on whether or not your child is rude and disruptive and it doesn’t justify his behaviour.

Could you imagine if all parents condoned their children acting up if they didn’t like their teacher? Classrooms would be in chaos and nobody would learn anything.

Your son is in a class of 30 children. Even if he can learn absolutely nothing in the class, the other 29 children will. So he should have the decency not to disrupt their lesson.

Ds is definitely right about the errors. I am worried that kids may be laughing at him as a pp describes, as they will be more likely to believe the teacher. I should tell him to shut up and not point out any more errors (hopefully there won't be any). It's sad to see his uncertainty over this - he's really not arrogant and LOVED this teacher initially. Now he's not so sure.

There is also the difference between knowing the content and writing to answer the question.

so e.g. Your DS might know everything to do with the Tudors, but he still needs to be able to answer 'Explain why Henry VII's marriage breakdowns lead to the formation of the Church of England'.

The rule in secondary is that if you want extension work then you have to ask for it.

There are also ways and means of pointing out errors. Some are polite, some aren't.

Teachers are sometimes wrong. I would say it's generally better to point it out while the class is sat doing written work though, rather than while the teacher is teaching?

Then they can go back and correct in a way that they choose, without losing face.

It doesn't say the teacher has a degree, but even if they do, the OP child could well be right.

This happened to dd with her subject too, we ended up H.edding for a while as the subject is what she wants to do with her life.
From 6 years onwards none of her teachers knew as much as she did and at 11 went to a specialist school, where the teachers are really qualified specialists, who do know what they are talking about.

I think it's good advice to approach the school in a positive way and not make this personal about the teacher. Thanks to those who have offered that advice. He's love a project like a pp says they do at her school - I hope something like this is possible.

How are your comprehension skills, Bejam? I have said that twice he mentioned an error and the teacher said no and ds said nothing more. Exactly how much teaching time do you think was lost there? He isn't constantly piping up and he doesn't argue when the teacher replies. FFS

Yes I suspect bits the way he's correcting the teacher that may be the issue rather than doing it, per se.

I'm quite happy to acknowledge mistakes in my lessons. We are all human. But if someone is undermining me a lot, it start to be a problem.

Is this history?

Because if so, a ‘fact’ can vary quite a bit between different books.

One textbook may say 600 people died at a particular historical event, another may say 1000.

When these things happened long ago, it’s often difficult to know for sure.

It would help if you could elaborate on these ‘mistakes’ your son spotted.

I would tell DS to stop pointing errors out to the teacher. Your DS sounds like a know it all. I would encourage him to learn to just sit quietly and do what is expected of him to pass tests etc. It's great that he wants to learn but he also has to learn to respect authority. You love DS so you won't see him like the teacher does. You see an intelligent good boy who just wants to learn. The teacher probably sees a pain the arse who has to be right all the time. Also he is being disruptive if he is pointing mistakes out in the middle of class.

Wow if your ds knows more than a teacher with a degree or masters in the subject/field at age 11, he must be extraordinary!

Well, my son's school put up Powerpoints on their online VLE. My son has mentioned errors a few times that I basically ignored as I assumed he'd misunderstood. But I've seen a few now by looking online, and yes, there are some howlers, that I could spot simply by general knowledge.

There's nothing wrong with calling out the teacher if there is a mistake in the material being used. Of course, the pupil/parent has to be absolutely certain of themselves. But you can't just assume that because someone has a degree or A level, that they know everything, especially in subjects such as humanities where they may be teaching a particular topic that they themselves never studied.