To think this is not good enough from ds's teacher

[edgedandtaken]

I never thought I would start a thread like this but I am worried about one of ds's teachers and his relationship with ds. Ds is in Y7 and is passionate about this subject. He reads books aimed at adults about it and really does know his stuff. He's a bright boy anyway and I have always worried he may be arrogant at school but have always been told that he is 'lovely' and not in the least arrogant. He can be bloody rude to me about my lack of knowledge, but I think he knows not to talk to others the way he talks to me!

When he first started this subject he loved it and the teacher. At the end of the unit he got 100% in the test. It's a humanity/arts type subject. The class then spent a whole lesson improving their work but ds only had 2 spellings to correct. I thought that was poor, but ds told me he had wanted to read the books in the teacher's room and I told him to take more responsibility for himself and that he should have asked the teacher and/or just read one of the books in any case. I did think it was poor ds wasn't given an extension task, but not the end of the world.

This term ds has been less and less enthusiastic about the subject, which is a shame as he really does love it. He claims not to have learnt anything but acknowledges that it's not the teacher's fault as he has to cover the curriculum that ds already knows.

However, twice he has spotted errors in powerpoints and politely pointed them out to the teacher, who has told him he is wrong. He's not - he has described the errors to me and ds is right. I know that correcting teachers isn't ideal, but ds is adamant that he is polite about it and doesn't believe the teacher himself made the powerpoint (I'm not so sure). However, he is losing respect for the teacher because he has denied what ds knows is right. To clarify, ds pointed out the error, the teacher said no then ds said nothing else but was left wondering whether the teacher knows his stuff and if so why he isn't acknowledging the mistakes and if not, where does that leave ds?

They have just done another test and ds has been given 38/40, which is great, but on the paper there is no indication of where he lost the marks and no targets have been set. They haven't done improvements this time, but ds isn't clear on what he did wrong. I know he's not going to get full marks all the time but surely he should be told where he went wrong.

AIBU to think there may be a problem with this subject/teacher and if so what should I do? It seems such a shame that a subject he was passionate about is now something he is not enjoying at all.

I once corrected my A level English teacher on his use of the word 'ignorant'. He used it to mean rude whilst rollocking the class. He wasn't happy. But teachers aren't infallible and can make mistakes. Just because he has a degree doesn't mean he isn't immune from errors.

Speedy, in common usage ignorant does now mean rude. It’s a dictionary accepted definition. That wasn’t the original use of the word, but language develops and it’s now a synonym for rude.

He sounds like an annoying know all. And I wouldn't bet on him not being rude. You are only getting his side of the story.

This is year 7. You are going to need to unclench a lot in the next few years.

Plus, you know the teacher has 29 other kids to teach as well.

I spent a few years teaching GCSE English to adults, which was usually lovely. One bloke interrupted me loudly to 'correct' my punctuation in the first lesson (he was utterly wrong). Over the course of the year he became worse and worse, unable to take advice, questioning my marking, insulting other students. He massively affected the group's ability to bond. They were totally sick of him by the end.

I'm not saying your DS will end up like this! I'm very happy to have mistakes pointed out to me but as many PPs have said, it's the way you do it. Just wanted to add my cautionary tale!

Edged The errors were where places were on a map, and the 'real' name of the country commonly known as Holland. Which 'real' name? It was part of the Duchy of Burgundy at one point, as was what is now known as Belgium, so names change over time.

I once corrected my A level English teacher on his use of the word 'ignorant'. He used it to mean rude whilst rollocking the class.

Although I know some people don't like it, there is nothing wrong with using ignorant to mean rude. Oxford dictionaries for ignorant :

2informal Discourteous or rude.
‘this ignorant, pin-brained receptionist’

Teachers should be corrected and challenged. I grew up believing some ridiculous and embarrassingly wrong things because my school taught them to me. Examples:

• Grammar schools no longer exist - taught at secondary school
• The largest continent is Africa - taught at primary
• Jane Seymour was a protestant - secondary history

All wrong and if someone had corrected them I might not have ended up learning silly wrong things.

@scaryteacher

The whole country together is called the Netherlands. Holland is just made up of 2 provinces of the Netherlands.

Speedy, in common usage ignorant does now mean rude. It’s a dictionary accepted definition. That wasn’t the original use of the word, but language develops and it’s now a synonym for rude.

Agreed, it is now (though I wouldn't use it). But back then it was considered incorrect to use it that way, as had been taught to us the year before in AS English Language by a different teacher, so from the POV of the class, he was wrong.

Yes, it totally depends on the period and incident being studied as to whether it's Netherlands, Holland or a.n other. And fwiw most Dutch people will happily interchange Holland and Netherlands eg they shout "hup hup holland" when supporting the Netherlands football team. So it's a bit of a moot point anyway and totally not s "right or wrong" issue. He'll find there's lots of similar cases if he decides to continue with his history studies. I hope he does.

TheInvesigator Now, it is called the NL; was that the case in the 1400s, when it was part of the Duchy of Burgundy?

In the excerpt below, I can find four different names for the NL, or parts thereof, so to say that the NL is the real name, may be incorrect; calling it the current name might be better.

'During the Middle Ages, the descendants of the Carolingian dynasty came to dominate the area and then extended their rule to a large part of Western Europe. The region of the Netherlands therefore became part of Lower Lotharingia within the Frankish Holy Roman Empire. For several centuries, lordships such as Brabant, Holland, Zeeland, Friesland, Guelders and others held a changing patchwork of territories. There was no unified equivalent of the modern Netherlands.

By 1433, the Duke of Burgundy had assumed control over most of the lowlands territories in Lower Lotharingia; he created the Burgundian Netherlands which included modern Belgium, Luxembourg, and a part of France.

The Catholic kings of Spain took strong measures against Protestantism, which polarised the peoples of present-day Belgium and the Netherlands. The subsequent Dutch revolt led to splitting the Burgundian Netherlands into a Catholic French and Dutch-speaking "Spanish Netherlands" (approximately corresponding to modern Belgium and Luxembourg), and a northern "United Provinces", which spoke Dutch and were predominantly Protestant with a Catholic minority. It became the modern Netherlands.'

scaryteacher

What has the 1400's got to do with anything? Have I missed a post from the OP? As far as I could tell from her posts, they were discussing things as they are now...

Take this out of the school context and project forward a few years. He's sitting in a meeting and points out perceived errors in his boss' PowerPoint, how do you think that will serve his career prospects? If there are errors he should question them politely one to one after class, not undermine his teacher by showing them up publicly.

TheInvestigator As we don't know the context of the lesson, it could well have been one about how the names and borders of countries change over time, especially as this was a history lesson.

I currently live in Belgium in a house that is older than the modern Belgium by 60 years, so I aware that things do change.

I can see a teacher being wrong, I basically taught myself half of one ALevel
Because the teacher was terrible. I did sections in the exam that weren’t covered at school, I was the only one with an A grade.

History is one of those areas that is so complicated there are often short cuts taught to give a general gist - the classic Henry the v111 started the Church of England so he could get divorced is so simplistic (and actually incorrect) but it’s tge story most people roll out into adulthood.

As PP have pointed out, mentioning a mistake is not the issue it’s how it was done! By your own admission your DS is rude to you. He’s probably rude to the teacher too. I’d be willing to bet a lot of money every time your son sticks up hos hand the teacher is like ffs in his head. They’ll be 29 other students that teacher is trying to teach.

In order to succeed in any role in life your son will need much more than knowledge - once at university they’ll be people more knowledgable than him. He needs to learn other skills. I would start at home and get him to learn to not be rude to you, it’s not acceptable and him thinking rudeness is acceptable in any circumstances will hold him back far more than any knowledge can take him forward.

Totally agree with the above poster.

zeroSum if a teacher was muttering under their breath shut the fuck up Johnny, you massive twat, I would be very concerned.

There’s a time a place for everything and as a teacher is a professional adult I would expect better behaviour and control.

It still stands, if the teacher (maybe in this case through no fault of their own) made a mistake, then they made a mistake. I don’t see the shame in admitting fault.

Wanting someone to shut the fuck up and thinking that they are a twat wouldn’t make the mistake correct.

The teacher is in a role model position and I just thinking that it would be a great lesson for the children to see we all make mistakes and it’s how we handle it and move forward that matters.

So in this case, saying thank you for pointing it out to me. Then as a professional, try to proof read beforehand if time permits to catch any errors and if Johnny is being a nuisance in the way he comes across then manage this better by suggesting they can discuss any mistakes at the end of the class or discussion with the parents how Johnny communicates.