To ration milk or not to ration milk

[babycatcher411]

That is the question!

Seeking advice here, as much as whether IABU.

Today at the dinner table it came to head that DP thinks DS drinks way too much milk. He thinks it’s unreasonable and isn’t a cost we should accommodate. He thinks I need to make DS drink something else.

This has mainly come up in discussion because the last 2 food shop periods (we do a big shop every 2 weeks) I’ve had to do a couple of topups of milk mid way.

Usually we buy 3 4pinters, for 2 adults and 1 child (11). Mostly this lasts almost the 2 weeks, sometimes I will buy an extra 4pinter towards the end.

I did point out that I have recently been drinking more milk, because of heartburn (36/40 pregnant) and have started having cereal at breakfast so we are going through it more quickly than we used to.
DP is adamant it’s down to DS consumption, that I should be stricter, that he was told off (and rightly so!!) as a child for drinking too much milk. I said I’m not rationing milk.

I can’t actually seem to find on google how much milk an 11 year old should drink.
I would say normally DS has milk with cereals (maybe 300mls), and a glass of milk in the evening (probably another 300mls). Sometimes he’ll have an extra glass but this is not every day, just as he feels like it.
Is this too much milk?

Still no actual links...

Check out foods already mentioned along with tofu & rhubarb

Seriously, cram your kids full of rhubarb instead? Every day, instead of glugging down a few glasses of milk? Come on now, it's just not feasible.

I know, Buttery, I'm chuckling at the thought of my 3 year old happily chowing down on tofu and rhubarb!

She is, incidentally, dairy intolerant. It it a massive PITA to get enough calcium into her, and we rely heavily on supplements, as it is just not realistic to achieve her daily requirement with the other calcium-bearing foods. I am uncomfortable with routinely feeding supplements, rather than providing her with a diet that provides all of her needs, as it does not promote a good attitude to healthy eating. But my hands are tied.

Why anybody would voluntarily deny themselves or their child dairy without good reason is baffling to me.

What do you think most of SE Asia, with exceedingly low dairy consumption do?? They all get their calcium from their diet, which has very little dairy, and historically wouldn't have supplemented.

We consume milk, I'm not against it, but while useful in a varied diet, it is by no means essential!

I guess they have better absorption of what is taken in if they get more vitamin D from high angle sun on exposed skin.

ChakiraChakraMy hero thankyou

What do you think most of SE Asia, with exceedingly low dairy consumption do?? They all get their calcium from their diet, which has very little dairy, and historically wouldn't have supplemented.

And these populations have the lowest calcium intake in the world.

It isn't essential, but some posters appear to be confusing that with whether it's useful. Two different things.

Also I'm not really sure why fibre has been brought up. We don't usually expect one foodstuff to cover all our requirements, do we? Nobody says don't eat strawberries, because even though they have Vitamin C they're not the best protein source. And there's nothing here to suggest DS isn't getting sufficient fibre elsewhere. It only really seems to be milk and dairy that inspire this approach.

Winter I expect there are other factors that compensate for the lack of dairy in the diet. Increases sunlight, as Anthea suggests. Also, they eat other calcium-rich foods we don't include in our diet, such as natto in Japan.

March I agree. There seems to be a recent cultural phenomenon where dairy has become a bit of a bogeyman, for reasons that I suspect were initially related to covert weight-loss strategies, but have somehow made their way into common thinking.

I also blame people reading stuff from US sites and expanding it to us. Their food welfare laws are much more lax than ours, plus their population contains a significantly higher percentage of people from groups who have very low lactase persistence, and thus really do need information about getting calcium from non-dairy sources.

I expect there are other factors that compensate for the lack of dairy in the diet. Increases sunlight, as Anthea suggests

And yet their vitamin D levels are also very low.

There is possibly different genetics going on too.

I happen to have the genetics to digest milk into adulthood. I wouldn't advise lactose intolerant people to eat what I eat.

I agree, Anthea, this could be an issue. Or something else. Or a combination. The reality is we just don't yet know what is going on here. It would be foolish to just assume we can also drop our calcium intakes massively here, without a better understanding of the mechanisms at play.

Also worth pointing out that while lack of lactase persistence gene means glugging down glasses of milk may not be the best idea, that doesn't mean all dairy is out. Fermentation reduces the lactase.

March I agree. There seems to be a recent cultural phenomenon where dairy has become a bit of a bogeyman, for reasons that I suspect were initially related to covert weight-loss strategies, but have somehow made their way into common thinking

I suspect most diets which exclude ceratin foods and food groups originated for weight loss.

Atkins was a weight loss diet, which has evolved into low carb diets which are now seen as “healthier”

But i grew up as a dancer where it was common for a teenage dancers to suddenly go vegetarian/gluten free/dairy free/wheat free as it gave them a way of reducing their food intake without their parents questioning too much.

As to the internet skewing things, its not just dairy:

I was looking for information to pass on to my friend who'd come up as low in iron. So to give some authority (!) to my knowledge gleaned from having had anaemia decades ago I looked online. If you Google "foods rich in iron", haem iron from meat/ poultry/ fish does not get a mention in the prominent visuals or first couple of page positions.

Most lay people can not and do not understand metabolic biochemistry. Heck i studied it for a year and still wouldn’t have a clue on most of it.

Much of the “science” around insulin and carbs for example is misinterpreted. Blood sugar in healthy people is pretty much stable as we have mechanisms to stop it going too high or low.

Basically don’t believe what you read on the internet re. Nutrition. Vast amount is bollocks.

Milk isn’t a great source of calcium, there are far better sources - salmon, sardines, almonds (almond milk?) green vegetables, chickpeas

What does 'best' mean? mg/100g by weight of source food (with usual water content, cooked), mg/100ml by volume mg/100 kcal? mg/£1 spent?

I'd like to see a table comparing Ca in those foods with the 3 common types of milk on all 4 columns.

Cols for *env. impact too, but not sure about units! per 1 tonne of CO2 equivalent, maybe? energy & water required for production of 100 mg, maybe?

buttermuffin sorry was on my way out on a bike ride so didn’t have time

health.usnews.com/wellness/food/articles/which-type-of-milk-is-healthiest

This chart gives an idea of how alternatives to cows milk fair in the calcium stakes

www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/what-should-you-eat/calcium-and-milk/

A banana has calcium, it also has potassium which releases the calcium in the banana.

Eating rhubarb and tofu alone isn’t going to be helpful, I had given a list of food that are really helpful in getting a good source of calcium and the foods contain other nutrients to aid the realises of calcium.

We go through about 20 pints a week. That's 2adults and 2dc and I don't really have any bar the odd bowl of cereal.
DS11 definitely drinks most of it but that's all he drinks bar water so I don't mind. And it's much better and cheaper than the Coke the other two drink!

I'm neither in the pro or anti milk brigade, either spiritually or scientifically.

I'm just properly boggled at the amount of milk some people are consuming!

DH and I are always faffing over whether to get a pint (doesn't quite last a week) or two pints (can end up going off if I don't go on a tea binge).

Fours pints is for if we're in all weekend AND we have guests.

We certainly wouldn't have routinely be given milk as small children because there were six in the house and only a regular sized fridge, and we were miles from the nearest shop.

We don't get through a lot of milk at all here, I get us 2 pints a week each (I prefer skimmed and honestly I'm a fatty, whereas dd prefers full fat and is v slim and needs the calories!) and I'm often having to throw out at least part of a pint.

But that's down to personal preference. Dd doesn't drink it "straight" and I have to watch my intake as it can make my constipation and sinus issues worse - although I also find it helpful for the heartburn u get. The heartburn & constipation both being mainly due to meds side effects.

Although we do love our cheese, yogurts and milk based puddings like fools etc. So get calcium that way. I'm also veggie and happy to eat calcium rich veggies.

Sorry, ivykaty I can't see the chart you mention. Do you mind letting me know which link to click, please? I can see the narrative about other foods being potential sources of calcium, but no chart or figures giving amounts per serving versus requirements, or grading foods to make sure it's bio available. Thanks!

Milk is definitely not essential for growth or good health. Neither DH and i drink milk (never have even as children) and neither do my DDs (who are now adults). We don't use milk in drinks either. DH uses a little in cereal and that's really it. We get our calcium from other sources and we are all very healthy. That being said there is nothing wrong with your DS drinking milk daily if he enjoys it.