BBC breakfast feature about potty training

[Lizhd]

Was anyone else irritated by the feature on BBC breakfast this morning about children still not being potty trained by the time they get to school?
I accept that if that is what the figures show then there must be an element of truth it however........they only spoke to mums on the issue suggesting that if you are a busy working mum or a mum to multiple children then it is YOUR FAULT if you children potty train late. There was no mention of a fathers in the feature at all. Clearly fathers hold no parental responsibility when it comes to potty training!
(I am aware that not all children have fathers present but in the same mind not all children have monthers present)

I’m also still smarting at the school calling me in to discuss DD’s two potty training accidents at age just turned 3, first term at school, new baby brother at home. They were so horrified they threatened to throw her out of school and accused me of lying about her being potty trained. I’m still cross about and she’s 12 😀

I’m sure some parents are lazy arses but some nursery teachers have forgotten they’ve got a class of almost toddlers.

I have known several children start mainstream school.in nappies, they all have learning disabilities and development delay ,I think a child with no learning or medical issues really wouldn't want to stay in nappies surely?

There was a suggestion that pull ups and more advanced technology are responsible, because children don’t feel wet in them.

I wouldn't be surprised if children were just left to wet themselves back in the 70's and 80's. Some kids do struggle with PT.

I didn't see it, but I'm having a nightmare trying to get DC1 (3 1\2) to use the potty. He's always been in cloth nappies, so must feel wet, and we've tried just pants so definitely wet, makes no difference!

Yes I handsome get distinct memories of children having "accidents." at school and I started primary school in 1978 .

Have some*

Yes I saw it and I was very irritated.

I saw the feature. They were talking about the average child, one who does not have disabilities or special needs.

It was a fairly balanced piece which was mostly about spotting the signs that a child is ready to "get it". They also said it's not a teacher's job to change nappies, which it's not. They were clearly talking about children starting SCHOOL in nappies being an issue - the nursery was discussed as a great support to parents in toilet training their children.

Every child is very different. All three of mine certainly were. My eldest was potty trained at 2.5 and got it right away. Within 48 hours. My daughter was much slower but managed in about a fortnight. My third... .jeezo. He managed the weeing immediately pretty much but had a real issue with pooing in the toilet. It's apparently very common. He was still regularly pooing in his pants at 4 and a half, we're in Scotland so he was still in nursery at that point but it was a real issue. He had laxatives, we did endless discussion and spent hours with him sitting on the loo and refusing to poo.

The only thing that worked was a ridiculous story about a poo going to pooland to visit his poo family.

We tried. We really tried. We did nothing differently than we did with the other two.

But I do think that modern nappies are part of the issue. They are so much better than cloth ones in that the child does not feel wet. So it takes them longer to make the link and realise that they need to use the loo.

No.it's not the teachers job to change nappies but if you read the ERIC guidelines it suggests that leaving a child wet and or dirty could be constituted as neglect , I mean why would a parent not toilet train a child who.has no disability or medical issue?, It isn't easier to not toilet train and i.have a disabled older child and in nappies so I'm aware it really isn't easier ,as surely a neurotypical child with no medical issues really wouldn't want to be in nappies any longer than necessary!?

Also nurserys used to be able to refuse children who were not toilet trained now thankfully they are not allowed to discriminate.

There are a lot more children starting school in nappies due to crap parenting. The same way there are more children starting school unable to talk at an age appropriate level .

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0002bmv

Nothing has changed physically about our children who were perfectly capable of being potty trained at around 2 years 30 or 40 years ago. Our children are not physically different to those in countries where disposable nappies are not available, or are very expensive, and manage to be dry before 2. What has changed, is that care settings are not allowed to refuse children who aren't potty trained, and increasingly nappy technology makes it far more attractive just to whack a kid in nappies. We also almost force our children to be constantly sipping from water bottles, and wonder why some of them struggle with potty training.

There's also many parents who don't realise that it's actually hard work, and no, your kid can't always get it in a weekend and yes, you might need to spend a few weeks being careful of where you go and not just carrying on as normal (or getting a potty out in the middle of a supermarket aisle, as I saw once). And I know that issues with poos are common, but I don't think modern life helps with that - kids had far more routines 30 or 40 years ago.

For all of those parents of NT kids having problems and engaging with care settings and schools, there are dozens more who just don't care enough to put the effort in. And we should be cross, as a society, that that laziness means that children with genuine problems, are losing out on support at school, because teachers and staff are dealing with the effects of slack parenting.

And I know that there are many genuine reasons for difficulties with toiletting. But a lot is due to bad parenting - either through lack of care or through ignorance. It used to be common to put kids on potties after meals at around 18 months - no-one does that any more.

My DS trainer late. He was over theee and a half. No SEN but finds change difficult. We tried and tried but he just wasn’t ready earlier. Even now at 4 and a half he’s trained but won’t wear pants, he goes commando. The whole thing was one of the most stressful times in my life.

I’m sick of hearing that one people who don’t potty train at 2 are crap parents.

Silene It's not uncommon for SN to not be diagnosed by the time a child starts school.

I think the problem is that forums are full of people cheerily shouting that "I just waited till my child was older and they trained in 5 minutes!" Yes, but a large part of the reason why these older kids have trained quickly is because they are being pushed by peer pressure from other children--whose parents DID train them earlier. If everyone starts leaving potty training till later, what happens?

Apart from the lack of Fathers I didn’t think it was a bad piece.

I have several friends who delayed potty training as it wasn’t convenient to them. One didn’t attempt to start until 3.5 and about to start nursery school because they did a 5 hour car journey once a week and didn’t want to have to stop. I get that some children aren’t ready until later but most are and imho some of it is simply lazy parenting.

@SileneOliveira Wed 06-Feb-19 09:02:01

The only thing that worked was a ridiculous story about a poo going to pooland to visit his poo family.

I could have written this about my 4 year old DD and her poo refusal. Fine with wees and never an accident even during the day. She wears a pull-up at night. But I swear she times her poo so she can do it in the morning into her pull-up and avoid "trying" each day. Absolutely refuses to do one in the potty or toilet. She's a wonderful, smart wee girl too - her line is, "I'm just not a pooing in the toilet kind of girl mum".

Do you happen to remember the name of the poo going to pooland book? I'll try anything. It's stressing me a lot now - she's at nursery until after the Summer. Nursery know and are working with us, but as I say she does her morning poo sort of sneakily in bed in her pull-up to avoid having to try anywhere else.

Re. dads and their involvement in training, I can't seem to get her dad to realise that it's an issue and he just thinks it'll magically work itself out (like everything else that doesn't if you don't put effort in).

Was this on breakfast on the TV? There was a piece on 5 live about it that was pretty balanced wrt using 'parents' rather than 'mothers'. There was a representative from Eric who said that working parents not effectively communicating with child care providers was a factor and the increasingly efficient nappies.

Many children are not ready for potty training until 3. In the seventies, they didn't start school until 5 so it wasn't an issue. It is true that terry nappies made children very aware they were wet and uncomfortable. A commitment is needed but the idea of battling with a child before they are ready is asking for trouble. How helpful are paid nurseries in training?

Thank you WhatTheNightBrings I was just about to come and say the same thing. When the child that leaves nursery at 4 in a nappy is diagnosed with Dispraxia at 7 those parents will still be the 'lazy' ones who couldn't be bothered to the cringing nursery nurses that waved them off. You cannot say with certainty that any child is NT at 4 or 5.

In the seventies, they didn't start school until 5 so it wasn't an issue

Maybe it varied by region, but I started school in 1976 at four and that was the norm where I lived.

Like I said, it is not about parents that are putting the effort in. It is about those parents who, increasingly, find it far easier just to change a pull up a couple of times a day than put the effort into potty training. And if your paid childcare is not good at helping children potty train, then it's very easy to not do anything at all, and you have a 4 year old who can't use the toilet.

I think nurseries are variable, as with anything. Some are great, some are poor.

NotAnother, it's interesting that you say children haven't changed in the last 30 years yet parents have become unbelievably lazy and crap at parenting? So the same parents that were excellent at raising dc to be in a routine and potty trained also raised dc who became lazy adults and parents themselves?

Nipping to a toilet every now and then is undoubtedly easier than finding a change table, queuing for change rooms, carrying nappies/wipes/bags around all of the time, so why is laziness always trotted out as the reason?

My dc were both 3 when they toilet trained, both did it within a day or two because by then they were ready. My ds didn't talk until he was nearly three and it was unbelievably stressful. Lots of help, lots of worry, lots of appointments with audiologists and SALTs. We were not just too lazy to teach him how to talk and the inference that we were is very hurtful and offensive.

@Bloatstoat

I was a clothbummer. My eldest has SEN and sensory issues where by she didnt and still usually doesnt at 11, notice or care if shes wet or dirty. But i had a normal pt experience with my second. We started with nothing on the bottom half at all because then they realise theres nothing there to pee into/ on. Do that for a few eeeks at home, then work up to just pamts, then eventually something like jogging bottoms. Anything easy to pull down.

I havent seen the programme, i dont watch much telly at all. But it would annoy me the way they blame the mums and yes, where are the dads. Or carers, guardians, grans and grandpas..... No one knew my eldest was sen. I had suspicions but its not always clear cut enough at that age for a diagnosis.

In my experience (4 dc, 1 diagnosed Sen) it very much depended on the child.

Dd1 got weeing around 2. She just didn't equate the sensation of poo with the mess that then occurred for another few months. She had ds1 arrive just before her second birthday and yes, I will admit with dealing with a newborn, enforced potty training at 2 very definitely went out of the window. We tried again over the summer she turned 2 and had reasonable successes. by the age of 3 she was dry and clean day and night.

Ds1 on the other hand point blank refused to potty train until he was 3.5. I was at the stage of believing he would be in nappies when he started school when all of a sudden he decided he wanted to be a 'big boy'. He also had to contend with twin siblings arriving just before his second birthday and again, forcing the issue just wasn't on the agenda. It wasn't like I wanted to be changing 3 poopy bottoms but ds1 did everything he could to avoid using a potty or toilet. He would even wet and soil himself deliberately! (Even at 8 he will occasionally wet himself mid-meltdown)

Ds2 was an absolute breeze and was dry day and night a few weeks after his 2nd birthday. Which made it even more frustrating that his twin sister just wasn't interested. She would happily play in wet or soiled clothes if left (and nursery did, accidentally, one day). It was nursery who asked for her to go back into nappies as they didn't think she was ready. She was daytime dry and clean just before her third birthday. Nearly a year later than her twin.

Dd2 is now a couple of months off 7 and despite following advice re liquids and timings etc from the continence clinic, she still isn't reliably dry at night. There are believed to be some Sen issues at play.

Yes, I do believe there are a large number of lazy parents. And the increase in use of pull-ups likely doesn't help. But I think the nappy companies need to take responsibility for this as well, advertising pull on nappies for babies as soon as they can crawl away! They are allowing people to take the easy option out from a much earlier age.

Perhaps the waste collections could encourage earlier training by charging for disposable nappies to be collected? (There are companies who already do this so nappies don't go to landfill but are incinerated towards energy production instead).

Maybe the real nappy movement needs a rocket up its arse in our disposable society. I used reusables with dd1 and ds1 but couldn't keep up when I had 3 in nappies.

Maybe nurseries need to work with parents instead of imposing their own training schedule - a friend put her daughter in the same preschool mine had been at, and due to a change of management they insisted on potty training from 2. The little girl was kind of ready but not quite. They had rigid toilet breaks and complained when the child a) didn't go and b)was then wet 10 minutes later. They initially refused to move the toilet break but a complaint went in. Suddenly toilet breaks became a free flow movement and there were a lot less accidents overall in the preschool.