To try cry it out method

[loveskaka]

I have tried everything to get my wee one to sleep through, nothing is working! I am considering trying cio but would like to hear some stories on your experiences. I did say I wouldn't do it but I am up at 6am for work really struggling now. Pls help!

No you’re right, some kids definitely need less sleep. But for sure there’s lots of grouchy babies and young kids walking/being carried around that ARE suffering from a lack of sleep. I know how noticeable it is when my baby doesn’t get a good night, he’s miserable and much harder to keep happy the next day (which I’m turn leads to stress for me but mums don’t matter according to many posters). Same with my 3 yr old and 4 yr old and 6 yr old. I wonder how many of these ‘difficult kids’ are lacking in sleep? Schools will tell you that lots of kids show signs of not enough sleep. A HV earlier in the thread mentioned good sleep hygiene being an issue in some families. Well this is it. It starts with not helping a child to learn to sleep and having zero boundaries at bedtime.

People not putting in bedtime boundaries, hanging around, holding hands, responding to baby and child wants (NOT needs) don’t like to hear this for obvious reasons.

Yes don’t underestimate the impact lack of sleep on development and performance at school. Some children may need slightly less than others but not by huge amounts.

This is actually something research has shown.

Yes it’s a few nights, a few times a year. But with each time it gets easier and less often. It’s no different than any of the things we have to push through with teaching our kids. They have to be given boundaries about eating, going to school, all antisocial behaviour that doesn’t come naturally to a child.

And I would never say that mums don't matter. They matter enormously. But as parents we surely commit to putting our children's needs ahead of our own where possible?

Not their idle wants and fancies and their every whim... If my daughter doesn't want to go to bed at bedtime and wants 'one more story' or whatall she gets short shrift, if she won't stop nattering and playing in the bed likewise... But if she's crying in the night and she needs a cuddle to feel safe, I'm not going to deny her for the sake of some arbitrary 'boundary', or because it's more convenient to me not to. She's 2. She has no sense of perspective! She's not crying to make a point or get her way, she's crying because she's upset.

I think there ought to be some sort of algorithm written into Mumsnet that means you're not able to post a comment including the words 'research has show' unless your post includes a link

People not putting in bedtime boundaries, hanging around, holding hands, responding to baby and child wants (NOT needs) don’t like to hear this for obvious reasons.

I don't mind hearing it; I don't mind other people doing what they think they need to do for their child and their family. But it doesn't apply to me and mine. And if people ask 'should I?', then by and large I'd say 'probably not' for the (personal) reasons I've given. Obviously I don't know the ins and outs of every poster's life and child.

People not putting in bedtime boundaries, hanging around, holding hands, responding to baby and child wants (NOT needs) don’t like to hear this for obvious reasons.

I don't mind hearing it; I don't mind other people doing what they think they need to do for their child and their family. But it doesn't apply to me and mine. And if people ask 'should I?', then by and large I'd say 'probably not' for the (personal) reasons I've given. Obviously I don't know the ins and outs of every poster's life and child.

Oh come on, it’s like saying you need proof for ‘research has shown that eating loads of sugar leads to obesity’. But here you go anyway, first item on google:

psychcentral.com/lib/if-your-child-has-problems-it-may-due-to-lack-of-sleep/

Here’s a fact: sitting by your kids bedside holding their hand to go to sleep leads to sitting by your kids bedside holding their hand to go to sleep.

So please don’t whine and moan at parents who don’t have to spend two hours doing it about how it’s unfair you have to do it for your 6yr old. (And then throw your head up enraged when told that we just refused to do it when younger so don’t have to do it now).

Yes we are all just doing our best for our family. I understand some don’t agree with any form of sleep training, even gentle methods. It just annoys me when they say ‘you’ll damage your child irreparably with controlled crying’ but then say that they can’t prove this as it would be ‘unethical’ to experiment on babies. So you don’t actually know then?

Frankly, until someone answers the cortisol answer then I’m happy with my choices and I’m thankful not to have had years of sleep deprivation and all the (researched) problems that entails.

I have literally come across this EXACT conversation twice this week so that’s why I’m even bothering to post the things I kept my mouth shut about at the time. Thanks for the release mumsnet!

Namestheyareachangin with controlled crying you go in and you keep going in. You don't leave your baby/toddler/child screaming.

The most I left it was 5 minutes and my 15 month old wasn't crying (not screaming) because he was in pain, was hungry, had a wet nappy or was being ignored. He was crying because Mummy wasn't letting him crawl all over her in bed, giving him extra milk in a desperate attempt to feed him to sleep or sing lullabies to him for 2-3 hours in the middle of the night. He was really pissed off. He would be equally pissed off when I wouldn't let him have the entire bag of sweets or removed the bowl of spaghetti after he'd thrown it on the floor 3 times. He went fairly mental when I stopped him from running out into the road and being killed by a car too!

But I didn't ignore him, I just repeatedly told him it was time for sleep in a low calm voice and he got the message! I was responding to both his & my need to be asleep in the middle of the night, which is usual behaviour for humans.

Margo that’s how we’ve always done it too. I think it’s very rare parents go the whole hog with leaving a child completely. It’s mostly unnecessary and we all live our kids so couldn’t listen to that anyway. We’d gave to be pretty desperate. And it’s not ideal but I still think it’s ok when absolutely desperate and everyone is suffering terribly.

The reality is that this whole thread is pointless. None of us with kids who for the most part go to bed and sleep, would have started this thread because we don’t have any problems there. And if your bedtime is miserable but you’re not willing to do what needs done to fix it, then there’s really no point to starting s thread either.

@auntiepatrica

So please don’t whine and moan at parents who don’t have to spend two hours doing it about how it’s unfair you have to do it for your 6yr old. (And then throw your head up enraged when told that we just refused to do it when younger so don’t have to do it now).

And the totally unwonted aggression comes out. Why is it if sleep trainers are so happy and contnet that their way is the right way (not just for them but for EVERYONE!) they feel the need to be so incredibly aggressive and rude to people who do differently?

Where on this thread have I 'whined and moaned' or said it was 'unfair' that I CHOOSE to put in time with my daughter to get her to sleep/when she wakes in the night? Or is this aggression of yours just aimed at parents who don't sleep train in general and I just happen to be catching the rough end of it because I'm there?

@auntiepatrica

So please don’t whine and moan at parents who don’t have to spend two hours doing it about how it’s unfair you have to do it for your 6yr old. (And then throw your head up enraged when told that we just refused to do it when younger so don’t have to do it now).

And the totally unwonted aggression comes out. Why is it if sleep trainers are so happy and contnet that their way is the right way (not just for them but for EVERYONE!) they feel the need to be so incredibly aggressive and rude to people who do differently?

Where on this thread have I 'whined and moaned' or said it was 'unfair' that I CHOOSE to put in time with my daughter to get her to sleep/when she wakes in the night? Or is this aggression of yours just aimed at parents who don't sleep train in general and I just happen to be catching the rough end of it because I'm there?

We did controlled crying when my then 8mo. We used the super nanny method and had it cracked in 3 days. It wasn't as horrendous as I imagined and my dd has been a brill sleeper ever since (now 6.5yo).

@Margo

But I didn't ignore him, I just repeatedly told him it was time for sleep in a low calm voice and he got the message! I was responding to both his & my need to be asleep in the middle of the night, which is usual behaviour for humans.

Fair enough, your choice, and good for you! Doesn't make it right for everyone. My child doesn't usually waste time crying and tantruming over being denied things - she moves along very quickly if I make it clear she's not having that breakable/eating another biscuit/whatever because she's very verbal and her understanding is good. She'll have a moan, I'll hold the line and that's that.

Her bedtime needs are very different, very insistent and just that - needs. She is clearly different from your son. Why sleep trainers find it so hard to believe that parents who can't countenance sleep training for their kids aren't just being wet, but that they know their child and know the difference between a grizzle and a scream, a want and a need? Just because it eventually 'works' on every child doesn't mean it's right for every child.

As has already been said, a car seat is different because the adult should be talking to the baby, so it has a reassuring voice even when it doesn't get a cuddle. Not that my baby has ever been left crying in his car seat nor pushchair either, but that'll be much too inconvenient a truth for some posters.

Waking for a few minutes and getting a cuddle doesn't interfere with a baby's total amount of sleep. Staying awake for hours does. My baby sleeps 12 hours per night + 2-3 hours naps. He slept at 7 then fussed 3 times last night; 10pm because the temperature dropped (blanket reset while he sleep fussed and he didn't quite wake), 1am for a 10 minute feed that he fell asleep halfway through so it was mostly dream feed and 4 or 5am for a 5 minute feed after coughing, up at 7 for his morning feed. He's ill and I know when I cough I want a drink too; of course he wouldn't die of dehydration but he'd be uncomfortable without it. Ignoring him to "set boundaries" would make no sense to him and it's not fair nor the loving thing to do. He would certainly lose a lot more sleep being left uncomfortable so he can learn to be quiet about what he needs just because it's dark. If he wakes from a nap too early I'll put him back to sleep by rubbing his back so he gets good naps, that's actually the main "trick" I've found to getting a good night's sleep from mine - good long day naps. But sure, I'm damaging him because some random posters think all babies have to cry.

It's getting repetitive, but as I said before it's all going to depend on the child. Making wild assumptions about how much other non-specific children wake or sleep isn't going to make arguments compelling. All the babies are different and will need slightly different care accordingly. Leaping straight to leaving the baby to cry before even trying gentler sleep training methods (withdrawing chair has been mentioned many times) seems incredibly harsh.

You may be talking ‘in a reassuring voice’ whilst your baby is crying in a car seat but the baby is still crying so why are cortisol levels different? And we all know how hard it is to stop on a motorway safely so I doubt you did that the minute your baby cried.

My point is most babies will cry for 5 minutes or more at some time. Why is the cot different?

Haha, I figured somebody wouldn't be able to bear the thought @Delatron. He hasn't cried on a motorway, the only times he's been on one I've been sat next to him so we played, looked out of the window and he slept. To be honest he doesn't cry much at all; sometimes we give him stuff when he's teething or ill but mostly he puts his arms up for a cuddle and that fixes most problems.

@MRex

He hasn't cried on a motorway, the only times he's been on one I've been sat next to him so we played, looked out of the window and he slept.

This is how we deal with long car journeys too. Doesn't half put some people's backs up when I tell them, you'd think I was making them do it the way they carry on. "You shouldn't pander to her like that!", "It's not fair on your DP to be up the front all by himself" (but apparently it's fair on my baby to be on her own in the back??), "It's good for them to learn they're not the most important thing in the world" (at one year old??).

Again, my choice. I could spend car journeys sitting in the back playing and chatting with my kid, while DP concentrates on the driving, or I could sit in the front, possibly have to listen to her cry without being able to do anything about it, do my neck in craning round to talk to her/try and sort her out if she gets upset/spills her drink on herself/drops her toy... for what exactly? To teach her a lesson? What lesson?

Any long trips I have to do with her by myself I use public transport. Again my choice, easier for me. And for short solo trips, I tend to whack on the Ipad with a bit of back-to-back Duggee and that sorts things out for 20 mins or so

And as for crying in the pram - slings are your friend! goes off to knit own muesli

How privileged you both are to be sitting beside your single DC whilst your DP drives!!!!!

How do single parents manage then? How do the parents of more than 2 children manage, where there is no room for a parent to squeeze in between the car seats.

As for using public transport - what are rural dwellers supposed to do? Only catch the one bus in & out of their village a day?

As has already been said, a car seat is different because the adult should be talking to the baby, so it has a reassuring voice even when it doesn't get a cuddle.

By that logic, what the parent should do is record their voice and play it to the baby when not in the room with them. Voila.

I'm of the 'crying is crying' school of thought. Some babies get terribly worked up in the car, it seems to me a total contradiction to be so worried about cc and not be concerned with that.

There was far, far more crying from my son when we were using 'gentle' sleep techniques. Shush pat drove him wild. CC was mild in comparison and mercifully short. For my son I firmly believe that cc was kinder.

@Margot

How privileged you both are to be sitting beside your single DC whilst your DP drives!!!!!

I am privileged. Insanely privileged. I am very well aware of this. Not everyone can make the choices I make, not everyone has those choices. But as I do, why wouldn't I make them?

*How do single parents manage then? How do the parents of more than 2 children manage, where there is no room for a parent to squeeze in between the car seats.

As for using public transport - what are rural dwellers supposed to do? Only catch the one bus in & out of their village a day?*

They do the absolute best they can under the circumstances they are in, I dare say. And most children turn out fine. But as I say, if you have the option - if you have one child, who wakes often in the night and wants you, or you have two parents and a long journey to make with a baby in the car - why wouldn't you do the thing that makes life easier for your baby, if you have the choice to?

That's what I don't understand - why people are so aggressive about those who don't 'train' their babies into independence as soon as is practically possible. Yes there are a range of levels of attention you can give your children in different circumstances, and I assume most people decide what they can live with before they have children/more children. But the idea there is some sort of maximum level of effort it's legitimate to make for your child's comfort and beyond that you're being a self-indulgent hippy? I just don't get it.