To think that anti-vaxers may actually being onto something?

[viiz]

I don't have children myself yet but I don't know what I would chose when the time comes. Most of pro vax/anti vax threads turns nasty with people not even willing to try and look at things with others side perspective. Not willing to even consider points of view different than their own and that's a very silly approach. People believed a lot of things that turned out to be false over the years and centuries. Why not to doubt a little?

I was born in early '80s and not in UK. Myself, my siblings and friends were all vaccinated at the time. I don't even remember what I was vaccinated against but had to be pretty basic. Just a few jabs throughout my whole childhood/teen years and nothing 3in1 or 10in1 or whatever they'll bring next.

Now to the point. Reading through hundreds of threads it jumps at me how many children have neurological, behavioural or emotional disorders. No one else sees it really?? I don't know even one person from my childhood including friends, extended family , neighbours etc who would have ADS or ADHD or any other issues like that. I see their children to have it though.

AIBU to consider there could be a link here??

Please be gentle. I hope to have a discussion here. I don't disrespect anyone's views and I only ask to try and ask yourself 'what if'.

Yes, YABU to think ‘what if’ when it comes to not vaccinating a child (other health concerns aside). It’s a dangerous view point that should be shot down in flames. There’s no way to be ‘kind’ about that.

Hear hear sycamore54321. The wide eyed and innocent approach seems to be the new tactic.

@WiddlinDiddlin

As to your question whether autism is worse than polio for example.. I had my vaccinations but we're talking maybe 3-4 throughout childhood and teen years. That's all. These days babies have full vaccination calendars. Babies!
I will definitely not be one choosing one over the other but what if there would be a way to have neither 😉

Firstly you have no good data to compare pre and post vac as
A - children were not diagnosed so much till recently and possibly only extreme cases

B- when you even look at just post 1970 child mortality rate it has come down dramatically (image below) so children that now live with behavioral issues may survive where previously they wouldn"t goo.gl/images/VY5TNG
And further back in time would also show rapid decline to the 1970 depicted here

C - autism. And adhd looks more genetic than through vaxing - often it occurs in prev generations however they may not have been diagnosed but often find the family have traits

D - also the increase in maternal age is considered to increase the risk

There is no data to really support any stance and doing so you are comparing apples and oranges as there have been so many societal changes since data began

These days babies have full vaccination calendars. Babies!

God forbid anyone wants to keep their baby safe. Yeah let's just wait until they are a teenager and see who survived.

It's likely to be the fact that it's more "diagnosed" nowadays and more talked about.
So people probably did have disorders of one ilk or another but either they didn't have a name on it or they didn't talk about it.
When my mum was telling me about when she was training to a nurse in 60s no one ever said the word "cancer", no one would talk about it.

@GirlRaisedInTheSouth

What about the possible link between vaccinations and severe food allergies? Not saying I believe there is one, but there is a study being conducted in Australia at the moment looking into it.

That's exactly what I would be raising questions about. 'Autism' is being overused as in relating it to vaccinations and it's causing a lot of negative feelings but there could be a lot of other issues/disorders. Just a possibility.

Also given that antibiotics are now increasingly ineffective, MenB for example is likely to kill more children in the future - vaccination prevents that over reliance on abx.

On vaccines and allergies:

The reunification of Germany is sometimes seen as an informal – but extremely large – experiment in how immunisation policy can affect allergies. Immunisation rates were close to 100% in East Germany where vaccination was compulsory. Prior to reunification there were hardly any allergies.

After Germany was reunited, vaccination was no longer legally compulsory and the immunisation rate decreased. At the same time, allergies became more common. This would imply that while some aspect (or a combination of aspects) of modern living is responsible for higher allergy rates, vaccination is not part of the equation.

www.vaccinestoday.eu/faq/do-immunisations-cause-allergies/

@TheOrangeOwl

As for the ASD/ADHD argument. Complete codswollop, but even if it wasn't, would you rather have a child with special needs or a dead/paralysed/deaf/amputee/blind one because of a choice you made?

What if my child will be special needs because of the choice I make? 😕 It wouldn't make me feel better just because he/she is not deaf or blind.
You're right about fear and huge responsibility. This is no choice at all.

There has been a rise in these disorders because they're being successfully diagnosed more. It's piss all to do with vaccines. In my opinion, obviously.

My DS is having an ASD assessment atm, he's up to date with all his vaccinations. I was a lot like him when I was a child but my mum just had to sort of put up with it, she said no one was ever concerned when I was little but she wishes she had the support that I'm receiving now.

On the other hand, I saw on facebook that a mum from baby group who declined to vaccinate her baby (I stopped going to the group when she told us this) has been told her DD likely has ADHD. She posted a lengthy rant about how she doesn't understand how it could happen when she did everything to prevent it so she won't be attending further appointments because it must be bullshit...

The vaccination programme has resulted in goady fuckers surviving childhood and posting nonsense on the internet.

'Autism' is being overused as in relating it to vaccinations and it's causing a lot of negative feelings but there could be a lot of other issues/disorders

If you mean the autism link is causing negative feeling because it's not true, spot on. But do go looking for other anti-vax "links".

The reason more children have an ASD diagnosis now than in the past is that the diagnostic criteria have changed quite substantially to become much broader and cover other, less severe, forms of autism.

For example, my son has ASD Level 2 under the DSM-5, diagnosed when he was 4 (he'd probably be considered a level 1 if rediagnosed now 5 years later thanks to lots of therapies and social skills groups over the years). In the 80s he'd have been considered unusual, a little professor, obsessive and antisocial, and would perhaps have had an attention defect disorder diagnosis (his dad was diagnosed with attention deficit disorder in the very early 80s). He would not have been diagnosed with autism as he would not have fit the criteria used to diagnose autism then. He does not have a speech delay, he interacts with other people albeit in his own idiosyncratic way, he can participate in mainstream school with some adjustments and he will almost certainly go to university or other further education and live independently. He still has significant issues with change, rituals and social interaction with peers and requires support for all of these but its highly unlikely he'd have been diagnosed with autism until dsm-4. He simply would not have fit the diagnostic criteria and no one would have thought to even consider them as applicable in his case.

The diagnostic criteria used in the 80s included the criteria of something like a "pervasive lack of responsiveness to people". This is completely different to the criteria in dms4 and dsm5. I also suspect the diagnostic criteria are being interpreted differently now. For example, the criteria that looks at social-emotional reciprocity now spans from total lack of interaction to an unusual or different social approach, reduced sharing of interests, failure of age appropriate back and forward conversation etc etc. That's a pretty broad criteria and many children who previously didn't fit the ASD criteria now do.

I have severe allergies OP

No vaccines here !! So nope no link. ! Good try thou

viiz kids only get 8 vaccines and then another when they’re teenagers. They don’t have to go to the GP’s for their weekly mercury injection. It’s hardly an inconvenience, my dc’s also had 2 for chicken pox. It’s a 5 minute appointment, then everything’s fine. For (the huge majority) there is no recovery period, you get injected, you go home.

@NellyandKelly

Thank you 🙂

Op

Have you even been to a country where an illness is prevalent so you need a vaccine.

You should definitely go to that country and not have the vaccines

That'll show em

What if my child will be special needs because of the choice I make? 😕

What if your child dies from a preventable disease due to the choices you make?

No it’s because previously these things went undiagnosed. Me, my mother and my daughter are Dyspraxic, only my daughter has a diagnosis. Getting her diagnosis was a light bulb moment regarding my own condition. My nephew and his grandmother have adhd. Only he has a diagnosis... Previously you were just clumsy or naughty.

'Autism' is being overused as in relating it to vaccinations and it's causing a lot of negative feelings but there could be a lot of other issues/disorders.

Translation: “the autism theory has been proven false so we’ll try and find something else to blame on vaccines instead”.

OP if you google Andrew Wakefield you can read exactly what his “research” was and why it was so comprehensively discredited. It’s not a conspiracy.

My child had special needs because of choices I made - the choice to have a child. No one could have told me that the genetic mutation would occur, but anyone who choses to have a child has to accept that there is a "risk" that the child may have some sort of congenital disability or disorder.

Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow

I think it’s multifactorial. I think the plethora of vaccines, less breastfeeding, toxins everywhere, damaged guts from incredibly poor diets and inactivity are leading to these issues plus autoimmunity, cancers and depression. Anxiety - this is in epidemic numbers now where I live in school kids.

I can’t agree fully with this. My son is 4yo and was diagnosed with cancer at 16 months old and autism at 3 yo.
I knew he was autistic from birth. He was breastfed and had a fantastic diet up until 16 months (when he was diagnosed with blood cancer). Since then his diet has been shit, restrictive and lacking in many foodgroups. In part due to mucusitus caused by the chemo and also due to 6 plus months on shake meals when in hospital and in part due to sensory issues as a result of his autism.
He will have genetic testing at some point but I believe his autism and cancer were due to seperate genetic mutations and the cancer was triggered by a nasty virus.

There are more diagnoses but there is more awareness and HUGE lifestyle changes.

We consume chemicals, stare at screens, don’t exercise enough, life in a society of instant gratification. Look at the increase in cancer, t2 diabetes, mental health disorders. While I’m not arrogant enough to say it’s 100% not vaccination related (although that is 100% my personal view) I think lifestyle is far, far more likely to be linked alongside an increase in awareness and diagnosis.

Oh for the love of god! This shit again!

No there were these conditions before. Just because something is not diagnosed doesn't mean it doesn't exists, autism and ADHD were diagnosed as mental illness, brain damage, weird kid or poor parenting in the past.
Autism and ADHd have been massively under diagnosis's and in fact ADHD was not even recognised as a condition in the UK until 2000 so how the fuck was my generation supposed to have been diagnosed? Or anyone else over the age of 19? 3 of my friends have been diagnosed with it in the last 12 months and I am waiting on assessment I am nearly 50.

Autism was discovered in the 1940's but in the UK it was the 70's before it started to gain any recognition, my brother born in the 70's has a diagnosis of "brain damage" he is autistic.
My children both have autistim and ADHD one of them would have been labelled a trouble maker and would have been excluded from school in the past and the other would have been labelled the weird kid and I would have been blamed for poor parenting. Neither of them changed after vaccination they are the same children they always where. it is entirely normal for people to want to blame something because it is incredibly painful to think you have this to your child. I can be caused by hereditary, random factors or brain injury, in my case it is hereditary with my brother, husband, several cousins and cousins children all now being diagnosed.
Don't mistake your lack of research and ignorance on this subject as proof.

Go away, read up on autism and adhd, read up on I don't know 🤷‍♂️ polio and what that does and then decide which condition you would prefer your child to have. Then consider you don't actually have to choose because ASD and autism are not caused by vaccinations but you can choose to protect your child from some diseases which can cripple, cause brain damage and kill.