To think that anti-vaxers may actually being onto something?

[viiz]

I don't have children myself yet but I don't know what I would chose when the time comes. Most of pro vax/anti vax threads turns nasty with people not even willing to try and look at things with others side perspective. Not willing to even consider points of view different than their own and that's a very silly approach. People believed a lot of things that turned out to be false over the years and centuries. Why not to doubt a little?

I was born in early '80s and not in UK. Myself, my siblings and friends were all vaccinated at the time. I don't even remember what I was vaccinated against but had to be pretty basic. Just a few jabs throughout my whole childhood/teen years and nothing 3in1 or 10in1 or whatever they'll bring next.

Now to the point. Reading through hundreds of threads it jumps at me how many children have neurological, behavioural or emotional disorders. No one else sees it really?? I don't know even one person from my childhood including friends, extended family , neighbours etc who would have ADS or ADHD or any other issues like that. I see their children to have it though.

AIBU to consider there could be a link here??

Please be gentle. I hope to have a discussion here. I don't disrespect anyone's views and I only ask to try and ask yourself 'what if'.

It wasn't that long that 1 child died every 18 minutes from measles worldwide

According to the WHO, in 2011 there were 158,000 measles deaths. That’s a child every 3 minutes. But it’s unlikely to be one of Cathmidston’s kids, so who gives a fuck, hey?

its like roulette.

Vaccinating is like playing roulette with a gun that has 3 million bullets and one of them might kill you.

Not vaccinating is like playing roulette with a gun that has 3 million bullets, and 90 of them might kill you.

Choose your roulette.

(Statistics simplified but based on WHO data on serious adverse reactions to the measles vaccine, and deaths in 2018 from measles in Chad, a country which does not have a cohesive vaccination programme)

Measles had declined massively... look at the graphs

And I was replying to the person who accused anyone who didn’t vaccinate of being reliant on herd immunity and if there was a measles outbreak they’d soon change their tune blah blah blah ...
I wouldn’t and don’t rely on herd immunity and I’m PERSONALLY not worried about an outbreak and neither is any one I know who hasn’t vaccinated .

And no of course I don’t want other children to get ill ....don’t judge me by your own reasoning.
If you continually attack and ridicule someone with different views so they can’t say right for doing wrong that says everything about you

Oh yeah, they’re definitely on to something .... population control 😬

(^my Dr DP)

I wouldn’t and don’t rely on herd immunity and I’m PERSONALLY not worried about an outbreak and neither is any one I know who hasn’t vaccinated .

And no of course I don’t want other children to get ill ....don’t judge me by your own reasoning.
If you continually attack and ridicule someone with different views so they can’t say right for doing wrong that says everything about you

But this is exactly what you’re saying. If people stopped vaccinating, there would be no herd immunity. You say you’re not worried about that, because your healthy and nourished children would be unlikely to die. But what about parents who don’t have healthy children, and who do rely on herd immunity? Why aren’t you worried about them?

“Personally if there was a measles outbreak in my area I wouldn’t be remotely worried as in a healthy nourished child is it is a self limiting illness. I’ve had it and so have many of my friends... same experience”

This alludes to the kind of magical thinking that’s prevalent in anti-vaxxers and there’s a kind of snobby superiority to it.

There’s often an underlying belief that organic, “chemical free” food (lol), probiotics and supplements give their children magical protection from infections and autoimmune conditions.

Except that some bacteria and viruses are just shit and there are individual genetic variances in immunity that don’t care if the yoghurt is organic. Previously healthy children get catastrophic illnesses and it’s naive and dangerous to think otherwise.

I wouldn’t and don’t rely on herd immunity and I’m PERSONALLY not worried about an outbreak and neither is any one I know who hasn’t vaccinated .

You think it won’t happen to you. I can understand that. Anti-Vaxxers never think it will happen to them. These parents didn’t think it would happen to them until their son got tetanus:

i.stuff.co.nz/national/8199964/We-were-hippies-about-it

I’m sure when this 22 year old woman’s parents didn’t immunise her as a kid they had no idea her flat mate would pass on diphtheria to her 22 years later:

www.smh.com.au/national/diphtheria-death-in-brisbane-shocks-ama-20110503-1e64k.html

Similarly this man’s parents:

www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/queensland/cairns-man-dies-from-diphtheria-20180208-p4yzo2.html

But if you think your healthy robust child will be ok through a measles outbreak, good for you.

My sister was given the MMR twice, she has autism. Growing up it was an excuse bandied about that she was the way she was because of the MMR.

But even taking into account autism etc, I’d flipping prefer to risk that than my child getting or getting and passing on Measles, Mumps or Rubella.
I do think that we all have a responsibility to vaccinate our children. But I guess it’s your choice.

My child is more at risk from the vaccine.

I am not prepared to risk a life time of immune issues to avoid an illness that would highly likely be self limiting in my child’s case or to provide a herd immunity that I don’t even believe in (the notion of herd immunity was devised for children who had acquired the disease naturally and had lifetime immunity)

You are free to exercise your own risk benefit analysis with your own children and are free to do as you wish as am I
End of

“I am not prepared to risk a life time of immune issues”

Like what?

Nolongersurprised... read the vaccine insert at your child’s next appointment

Those illnesses cause immunity issues ie mimps causes t1 diabetes, measles suppress the immune system for 3 years, rubella causes RA.
Has a your childs consultant paediatrician told you that your child is contraindicated for any vaccines

Herd immunity doesn’t protect your child from diphtheria, tetanus, meningococcal disease, Hib, or pneumococcus. Your child is at risk of these diseases for the rest of their life. The woman in Brisbane didn’t even have to travel to get diphtheria, her flat mate did and passed it on to her. This is the risk you’re accepting for life.

Cathmidston, your silly comments about measles shows that you absolutely do rely on herd immunity. Only someone who freeloads on the protection provided by others could be so blasé about shunning vaccination.

We know that vaccine deniers would rush to vaccinate their kids if there were an outbreak of measles because that’s exactly what happened in Swansea not long ago.

When the disease is around you and your children, your absurd and dangerous faith in made-up graphs and wonder food will evaporate. You will demand the modern medicine of vaccines.

Pissingintherain I’ve had measles, mumps, rubella and chickenpox
Believe me I have no fear of childhood illnesses. First hand experience and all that

Cath, I thought the reason you were able to be blase is because you don't believe that vaccines work at all. Because you don't believe in germ theory. That's right isn't it?

Ive had all 3, still wouldnt want me dc to have unecessary illness. Measles was horrible and i had repeated tonsilitis for a year after meaning i had months off school.when i was 10 and they took them out when it wasnt fashiinable to do so.
Caught rubella off my mother when i was 14 and she was 39, it isnt that easy to get as a child as epidemics come around every 7 years which 8s why so many babies are affected in the womb.

cath

You’re the one claiming that vaccination has an adverse effect on immunity. Studies? No quack sites please.

I can’t “read the vaccine insert” at my child’s next appt because my well nourished, healthy children are vaccinated.

You’re making the claim, you should back it up.

Correct.. I believe in susceptibility

The graph I was referring to

I do have to laugh about the my kid only eats organic.... before the advent of chemical pesticides and fertiliser...all food was organic.
However eating tons of organic food, lots of fresh air etc didn't stop massive outbreaks of disease and thousands of people to die from diseases we now vaccinate for.

Incidentally I once worked with a polio victim who had very limited use of one arm.
And I know somebody who's deaf in one ear because of measles.
It's not just death you have to worry about with certain diseases.

That's mortality rates and not incidence.

DDT polio link
Refer to the graph above for measles

Thats mortality not number of cases. Even in the decade before vaccination over a 1000 died of measles in the Uk.
Again with measles it not just about mortality its the consequences such as deafness, blindness and braindamage and reduced immunity

Incidence generally accepted to follow the same trend as mortality