To think that anti-vaxers may actually being onto something?

[viiz]

I don't have children myself yet but I don't know what I would chose when the time comes. Most of pro vax/anti vax threads turns nasty with people not even willing to try and look at things with others side perspective. Not willing to even consider points of view different than their own and that's a very silly approach. People believed a lot of things that turned out to be false over the years and centuries. Why not to doubt a little?

I was born in early '80s and not in UK. Myself, my siblings and friends were all vaccinated at the time. I don't even remember what I was vaccinated against but had to be pretty basic. Just a few jabs throughout my whole childhood/teen years and nothing 3in1 or 10in1 or whatever they'll bring next.

Now to the point. Reading through hundreds of threads it jumps at me how many children have neurological, behavioural or emotional disorders. No one else sees it really?? I don't know even one person from my childhood including friends, extended family , neighbours etc who would have ADS or ADHD or any other issues like that. I see their children to have it though.

AIBU to consider there could be a link here??

Please be gentle. I hope to have a discussion here. I don't disrespect anyone's views and I only ask to try and ask yourself 'what if'.

What freedom? The freedom for charlatans to sell their advice not to vaccinate or peddle vitamin pills or homeopathic treatments or special diets or other such nonsense, in place of vaccinations?

How would that stop scientific progress?

The restrictions have worked very well for 70 years with cancer. People get advice and treatment for cancer from doctors, not cranks on the make. Cancer research continues successfully.

Freedom of speech is not unfettered and never has been.

When it comes to medicine, from the mouths of laypersons “exposing conspiracy” and “I have done my research” are the leper’s bell of the cranks, fools and con artists.

@Lweji - that was more in response to treatment of diseases, not prevention. If prevention was really the aim, maybe local governments etc could stop approving takeouts on every street corner, promoting sedentary lifestyles outside of work hours and pushing people to their limits within them. Seems strange to think the government cares about our wellbeing when we can all clearly see that profits come before people.. always... except for where vaccines are concerned of course.

I also am not under the illusion that there are all these lab assistants conspiring against the general public. I imagine they just want their pay cheque like everyone else.

Tbh, I just genuinely hate how heated and obsessive this debate becomes, to the point where we have people actually advocating for government sanctioned medical procedures and the removal of the freedom of information act. I understand feeling passionately about something, but the passion seems to drown out any critical thought/questions/debate that could potentially see major improvements in how vaccinations are made/tested and distributed. I don't tend to respond well to people calling me names and telling me I'm wrong just because I am and insisting the government forcibly make me vaccinate, I imagine most people feel that way too.

Sorry for the rant! My 2 cents.

The whole "Cancer can be cured but they are hiding a cure" thing is bullshit

I agree.

The annual "cost" of cancer to our country is £18.3 billion per year. Diabetes £23 billion. Dementia £26 billion. Heart disease £9 billion. Arthritis £8 billion. Autism £32 billion. These figures include the cost of NHS care plus loss productivity, social care, etc.

Given the huge costs involved, don't you think that if there was a cure it would be available? And that the pharmaceutical company that came up with that cure, and patented it, would be unbelievably wealthy as a result?

But many cancers are being cured, i don't understand the statement that the cure is being hidden somehow.
The company dh works for produces at least 3 cancer drugs that i can think of, no vaccines though.

But many cancers are being cured, i don't understand the statement that the cure is being hidden somehow. The company dh works for produces at least 3 cancer drugs that i can think of, no vaccines though.

By cure I mean a miracle cure-all that fixes all ills in one fell swoop.

You know, like the magical cure Big Pharma are deliberately witholding.

Well, I've come out of hiding just for this thread. Hello, all!

I'm one of those people who had a child who developed cancer in childhood, a rare form of acute myeloid leukaemia, FLT3 mutation and am also the mother a child, a son, now 10, with autism.

My daughter is dead.

I guess I'm one of those worst-case scenarios according to anti-vaxxers.

I'm not really sure how to respond, tbh. It's been over 6 years since my daughter died and my son was diagnosed at the age of 6, nearly 3 years past her death.

I guess it's that I do get asked sometimes if I would play it the same way wrt to vaccines and my response is always yes.

Because vaccines in no way caused my daughter's cancer, of that I am 100% convinced, nor my son's autism.

There is no way I can reverse what happened to my daughter, all the best doctors in the world tried to save her, or my son's condition.

But I do know one thing. I'll hand on heart die 1000 deaths before I see my two surviving children sick or in hospital or ICU with something that could have been prevented with a jab that I could have easily got for them. Because no one can predict that a child will come through such illnesses unscathed. There's just no way to predict.

Had my child survived her allogenic stem cell transplant, she'd have been at extreme risk of infection and unable to begin vaccines until 18 months past successful transplant. That was our lookout.

But I always had another, and that to all of them.

My mother got measles in 1949. She lost 30% of the hearing in one ear from it and counts herself lucky, because 3 of her classmates did not survive.

My father remembers that terror in the community when there was a polio outbreak.

They were both born at home, good diets, breastfed till the age of 2. Still got everything going. Were lucky enough to survive.

Some aren't. And there's no way to predict that it won't be yours.

Peace

The OP is idiotic. She’s taking two things and forming a link with no causal connection whatsoever.

I guess it's that I do get asked sometimes if I would play it the same way wrt to vaccines and my response is always yes.

My eldest son is autistic and one of my other children was diagnosed with it too shortly before Christmas.

I've been asked more than once if I think vaccines have anything to do with it, I've also been told I can cure DS if I cut out processed food/feed him aloe vera gel/go fully organic/make him gluten-free/home school/use turmeric.

The whole "Cancer can be cured but they are hiding a cure" thing is bullshit

Believe me, this is THE biggest bullshit ever. If you think doctors and scientists are hiding a cure you are about the biggest fool there is going, too.

I'm little overwhelmed with response to this thread but I'm trying to go over everything that's been posted.

Thank you for your input, sharing your stories and your thoughts. I've read some really good posts here.

A lot of people here feel strongly about this topic and they seem to think that something is either black or white forgetting about all the shades of grey in between. At the same time I'm pretty sure all of those posters would also claim to be open minded ( please check definition of open minded , twice even , but you're not it).

Maybe you could at least try dropping this arrogant 'Im right, you're wrong' attitude and admitting that there might be the slightest chance that our modern science/medicine does not know everything yet. Could you honestly say they covered it all and there will be no new findings or change of direction let's say in next 10,20,50 years from now??

I never claimed to know anything for sure or to have specific scientific knowledge but it doesn't mean that I can't ask questions or express my concerns without being verbally abused for it.

OP has disappeared. Despite what she says, I’m pretty sure she HAS decided against vaccination, and was simply here to find idiots and whackjobs who would back up her beliefs.

Let’s hope she has an injection of common sense before she has children.

Oops, cross post, how embarrassing.

"there might be the slightest chance that our modern science/medicine does not know everything yet. Could you honestly say they covered it all and there will be no new findings or change of direction let's say in next 10,20,50 years from now"

No-one said that. Some things in science are "known", or as known as they ever can be.

Questioning is fine but there doesn't in this case seem to be much basis for your concern.

While there have been some pretty rude posts (but by no means all) dismissing all of them in this way just means you aren't dealing with any of the valid points.

Expatinscotland I’m so sorry 💐

If posters are going to question , then the least they can do for credibility is be able to back it up with proper research ie not fraudulent papers by the likes of Tomljenovic and Shaw or the nonsense about the Amish not vaccinating .

Good to see you expat

Expatinscotland
I am glad your back.

A lot of people here feel strongly about this topic and they seem to think that something is either black or white forgetting about all the shades of grey in between

Like I said, there are grey areas and areas where science isn't sure and keeps having a discussion about it.

But not where you think it is.
I never see these vaccine discussions by lay people about BCG, chicken pox or the very new malaria vaccine. This shows me how much "research" or how not well informed they are.

It's also interesting that after the first supposed links between MMR and autism, loads of research was done (properly) to investigate any link. By people with no interests in the industry.

Unlike the antivaxxers interests, often linked to selling bogus medicine like homeopathy. (And no, there is no grey area there)

I'd really advise you to start reading the Cochrane library about vaccines. In general.
Also check PubMed. You'll see the body of research and what the actual hot and debated topics are.

Then we can have a proper discussion about vaccine use.

Op be careful that you are not so open minded that your brain falls out. I think open mindedness is fantastic but it must be tempered with logic and and basic understanding of scientific method. I am not a scientist but I did some research on the MMR before my 3 children (now all 10+) had it. I was reassured by my reading that the process was tested and as safe as it could be and the best way to protect against some very nasty diseases

A decade later I have 2 children with autism, but there was no regression at two years old, no major behaviour issues. My dd1 had toddler constipation, but that was eventually managed and she grew out of it. They are lovely, kind, clever children all three, two of them just happen to also be autistic, there is a probable genetic link as they have cousins and some older relatives on the spectrum. I have never once believed or really entertained the notion that MMR causes autism. I have read accounts from people who do believe, but never felt any recognition or saw anything beyond correlation which is not evidence of a link.

No you can’t “cure” autism but you can alleviate some of the more difficult manifestations of it by trying dietary changes eg GF and casein free. It has also been shown that people with autism have lower levels of glutathione and that helping this process can also assist.

This isn’t me saying we should eradicate autism by the way before you all shout at me

"there might be the slightest chance that our modern science/medicine does not know everything yet. Could you honestly say they covered it all and there will be no new findings or change of direction let's say in next 10,20,50 years from now"

That’s not what medical experts are saying. They are saying that the evidence is that vaccines are beneficial. Science works with up to date evidence rather what might or might not happen someday.

If I tried to alleviate some of the symptoms of my son's autism by going gluten free and casien free he would be dead within a few weeks because he would basically starve, we tried it when a well meaning but deluded nutritionist with no knowledge of ARFID or SPD and very little knowledge of Autism spectrum disorders suggested it. Should have done some research but this nutritionist was highly recommended, that episode cured me of a rather lackadaisical attitude towards anyone whose input was necessary in the management of my son's autism. Dietary changes in children with autism won't always work in the way you expect.

2 children with Autism, 2 different presentations and all that.

The OP isn't open minded at all. They're not really engaging in the discussion. Just posting the odd post to keep it going.

There's a couple of expressions that apply to these pps.

If I tried to alleviate some of the symptoms of my son's autism by going gluten free and casien free he would be dead within a few weeks because he would basically starve

Same for one of my DC who only eats bread, chicken, red peppers, and Babybel.