... to think they should have been supervised?

[itsallslush]

Ready for the flaming... but I want to hear what other people would do.

Is it OK for a 9 yr old to slice bread for toast without an adult around - when he's not been shown how? The 11 yr old was up but DH was still dead to the world (big night out) so they were getting their own breakfast. I was at work. I know bread knives aren't sharp - but also that DC doesn't know a bread knife from a carving knife. Is the answer to teach him which is which - or to get my lazy-arsed DH to get up?

It's not a one off - though it's usually not because of a boozy night, just because he doesn't get up. But things aren't good between us at the moment, so I don't know if that's skewing my view of the whole thing.

How do/did you work out what - and when - kids should do various things on their own?

@caughtinanet it was 8am.

We don't leave them in the house on their own to get up and ready for school. So I think that means an adult has to be around (and awake).

But maybe I'm going to be told that's not necessary either and they can do the whole thing on their own.

At 9 should be able to do this.

shocked that some children have never been in a kitchen or been allowed, or taught kitchen skills. Do you really think that every child has the same opportunities or interested parents?

but what about FOOD? It's not just about cooking it, but what about eating it? How do they manage at school? People don't eat exclusively with their fingers in this country!

We don't leave them in the house on their own to get up and ready for school

If your DH is still in bed then effectively that is what he's doing isn't it? At 8am I'd expect his to be up, it's a bit selfish to get so drunk on a week night that he can't supervise the next morning, how do your DC get to school? He's not driving them is he?

I'm prepared to be flamed here as "that" parent and risk the wrath of the "I was driving a train at 6 and firing guns st 7" patents and say:

My kids couldn't and wouldn't use a sharp knife to slice bread at 8.

There. I've said it.

Op I don't think you are as unusual as many on this thread would have you believe if your primary ages kids haven't been used to using sharp knives unsupervised. There is a weird bias on mn which insists kids must be doing all sorts of adult stuff very early and entirely independent at 16 and you are pathetic if you even offer them a lift after 12.

My dc have both been shown how to use sharp knives at school. I have shown them too, we are a household of fairly keen cooks. But if I hadn’t, school have. They make simple things at school. The last thing my 5 year old made at school was stir fry. The kids were all chopping peppers, mushrooms, cabbage etc, at school, with sharp knives. Happily they do it in small groups of six and not the whole 30 at once but sharp all the same.

I had a Saturday job in a bakery by age 14 - I had to be the one who sliced the loaves, on request, for paying customers. I did rather freeze the first time I was asked to do it! But I got used to it.

Turn the loaf on its side for even cutting on a flat surface. Much easier to track the knife. No one wants wonky sandwiches.

Thanks @caughtinanet and @BitOutOfPractice Yes, it's him not being up/too hammered today that's underlying why I'm annoyed. He didn't have to drive but did have to work.

@CallMeVito This wasn't about eating with a normal knife - I find you have to use a bigger, sharper knife and a fair bit of force to slice bread.

Overreaction I'm afraid, unless there's specific reasons a 9 year old can make their own breakfast, and use knives safely too - perhaps the perfect time for cooking skills to be encouraged. By 10/11 mine cook make lasagna from scratch (school year 6) and that involved sharp knives - they were fortunate to have proper cooking lessons at school and both picked the hardest option, but they had always cooked with me

I'd be more annoyed that the parent in charge was still in bed, what time was it?

Why for goodness sake? Even parents are allowed a lie-in, especially when their kids are more than old enough to get up without them.

but what about FOOD? It's not just about cooking it, but what about eating it? How do they manage at school? People don't eat exclusively with their fingers in this country!

What about it? This is about knife skills. You can't slice (safely or properly) an uncut loaf with a regular table knife, you need a sharp bread knife. Children do not use sharp bread knives to eat their school lunch so what's your point?

Parents can't be up and awake every minute their child is - what if he'd got up in the night?

A 9yo needs to know what he's allowed to do for himself and what he needs supervision for. Which knives he's allowed to use is definitely one of those things he needs to understand. Mine are older so maybe my memory is hazy but I'd have thought by 9yo he should have been taught how to use knives safely, especially in a household where you have to slice your own bread.

Why for goodness sake? Even parents are allowed a lie-in, especially when their kids are more than old enough to get up without them

Different strokes etc but in all my years of parenting I've never been too drunk to get up on a school day, to me that's a line I wouldn't cross which is why I said I'd be annoyed, obviously it might be acceptable for others and that's fine, I was speaking personally.

Good point caught. Sorry I was forgetting about the alcohol. That's not good.

Other than that, I wouldn't really see a problem here.

A 9 and 11 year old should be able to get their own breakfast. That said I am an adult I can cook well make my own bread and so on but slicing bread is not something I am proficient at. One end is always thicker than the other. Toast is always made with sliced bread in this house for that very reason.

Even if these particular 9 and 11 year old children hadn't acquired the skills to use a knife, and these had as we've discovered by them making themselves breakfast - then it's still okay to leave them downstairs to get their own breakfast.

They should be old enough to understand their own bread cutting limits (as they were by their success) and if they'd decided they couldn't slice bread then they're in a position to either eat something else, or to wake the sleeping parent up.

I can't actually imagine how you would go about ensuring you were always up when your kids were - you can't possibly lock them in their room, so do you have a movement sensor outside the door to wake you up?

OP's recognised the real complaint is about the drunken night and sleeping in, how bad that is a different question, but on the subject of the knife usage - it's something you'd generally expect of 9 and 11 year olds.

@itsallslush OP, I get the feeling that this, mostly trivial incident, is part of a much wider problem with your DH.

Wanna talk about it? It doesn't sound like things are very good for you at the moment

I can't actually imagine how you would go about ensuring you were always up when your kids were - you can't possibly lock them in their room, so do you have a movement sensor outside the door to wake you up?

When my DC were younger they would come in to me when they woke up if I wasn't already up and now they are older I'm always up first but I can't imagine not being woken up by the noise of a child getting up and going downstairs but I do sleep with my bedroom door open so maybe that's why. I see it as my job as a parent to make sure my DC have a good breakfast, a realxed start to the day and a nice packed lunch for school all of which need me to be up first, that's not unusual is it?

I don't think I'd let my dd 10slice bread with a bread knife.

I let her make tea or toast slices bread but I can just imagine her slicing right into her hand.

But yes 9 and 11 are ok to be up on their own and making breakfast. I mean I'd probably habe said "no using the sharp knives" as a general rule.

Dd10 left me and d's 5 to sleep til 10.30 the other Sunday. She had apparently been up since 7.30. I did tell her she could have woken me, certainly by about 9. Ds just happens to be a late riser.

On ‘bread knives aren’t sharp’. I’ve got a nasty cut on my finger that says otherwise! It needed stitches and it’s really jagged and gross, and I’m a 30 year old! I wouldn’t want my 9 year old using one unsupervised

YABU at that age I was using the oven and making own tea and knew how to make cups of tea but I had to know stuff like because I grew up with disabled parents.

purple, not even if you've taught them how to use them carefully?

I don't know anyone who hasn't cut, scraped or burnt themselves while cooking. It's not nice but it's part of learning.

Well, whaddya know, DD sctualkyvasked to help make the dinner tonight! so she peeled a carrot and then got bored.

Vito DD is an only child and sometimes is a little lonely. I'm not going to refuse to have breakfast with her if she says she doesn't want to have it by herself, because I'm not a bitch. If that means I make her breakfast, so what?

This really is the biggest load of self righteous MN bollocks ever.

So many people falling over themselves to condemn the op because her kids aren't riding a unicycle to school / juggling fire / i dining sharp knives at 5 / ironing for the whole family at 8.

What a load of pompous arses you all are.

I don't think it's U to think a parent might get up to make their kids' breakfast without it being an affront to the parents human rights