AIBU to feel sad for DD and her birthday

[Daddylonglegs1965]

Poor DD almost 14 has had a tough year and a half of it with her peers at school. Brief background isn’t into the usual showing off her body, boys, make up, pop, posing, pouting and popularity contests etc etc. Preferring comfy clothes, no hassle, honesty, loyalty, animals, laughter and chocolate. Anyway after a bit of nastiness from some previous friends kept herself to herself. But in the last couple of months she has got more friendly with a couple of girls from school (speaking to them most nights on iPads but only met up with them a couple of times outside of school but they don’t live near us and it’s not really the season for it). Anyway she spent her birthday last year with us as she had no friends to celebrate. This year she asked if she could go out for a pizza with two friends from school and then have a sleepover which we agreed to. I gave her the choice of 4 dates and asked her to double check it these dates were ok with her friends which she did and booked a restaurant a couple of weeks ago. Last week one of them said she couldn’t sleepover now as her mum was away and she had to look after the dog at her grans but she could probably just come for the pizza (not ideal but fair enough). Anyway this morning the other one who was coming for the sleepover and the pizza has messaged DD to say she isn’t allowed to come to either now as her gran is ill but it’s not fair as one of her sisters is still allowed to go to her friends. I don’t know how ill her gran is but I have said if lifts are a problem we can pick her up and drop her off. AIBU to be disappointed on DD’s behalf. WWYD would you still carry on for a pizza with hopefully one friend or reschedule when they are both free? I don’t know either mums telephone number but I saw DD send a text to both girls inviting them and giving them my number for their mums (incase their mums wanted to check anything out and so they had the info re times and restaurants). Also I wouldn’t fancy DD going for a sleepover to someone’s house I had never met before and wasn’t sure whether or not the parents were going to be in and who else was going to be there.

Yes I shower and use deo-anti perspirant every day (sometimes shower twice a day in summer or if have exercised) And I also always keep a small spray in my draw at work (as have my own office). When I say DD is whiffy you can’t smell her from a distance but when she puts her arms up and are close. I nag her all the time about washing and personal hygeniene but she doesn’t care and has never cared (so isn’t depressed). She is still 13 till next week. All girls are different I have a couple of friends with 14 nearly 15 year old daughters in the year above who can’t get their DD’s out of the bathroom and they take hours to get ready using full make up every single day and which my friends hate and they find very frustrating. DD would rather have one or two friends than a big gang.

It's not that unusual for teens to be shower dodgers (or for them to be shower hoggers either). Obviously by the time you're 13 daily showers should be mandatory but the natural look and not wanting to wear make up is fine.

My boy is as whiffy as they come OP. He showers every day but it’s a hormonal thing and I remember my own phase of white shirts going yellow at the arm pits etc. It’s normal!
I think you sound lovely and DD sounds a good lass.
I wouldn’t worry too much about this year and the mates and just celebrate your own way...

I hope your DD has a great time and a happy birthday. She sounds ace. She'll get with the washing thing.

I'm surprised that no-one at school has told her about BO. DD sounds very much like your DD, and also had a terrible time at 14, but when it comes to personal care DD was very much influenced by her peers. She would have been so embarrassed to have been told about her BO etc. She does suffer from excess armpit sweat so she uses Triple Dry anti-perspirant.

Maybe you need to be more bunt about her personal care.

I think you have every right to be upset it’s natural. I agree that I would not let my daughter stay st someone’s house that I hadn’t met. I’m surprised the parents havn’t contacted you. I’m finding girls particularly difficult at this age. My dd has had friendships problems since year 7.

'nag her all the time about washing and personal hygeniene but she doesn’t care and has never cared '

Thing is there's lots of things that teens don't care about. Like everything be it homework, personal hygiene or tidying rooms you just need to not cajole but tell her. Shower everyday full stop. Anti perspirant every day (not just deodorant, that won't stop the smell. Mitchum is very good and they do a 48hr version) until she does so without being pushed. If you can smell her when sat next to you so can everyone else and it won't be helping with any friendship issues.

Good luck. Helping teens with friendships isn't easy, we have to let them sort it themselves but encourage and advise from the sidelines.

Dear OP,
I agree with the suggestion that the bigger worry is personal hygiene. That is certainly important if she is wiffy! Peers will be cruel if she isn't clean. Can you ask her why she is not thinking that is important? Buy her nice soaps?

I found that shaving my armpits was the best way to avoid smelliness. I did not need deodorant so much. (Antiperspirant I did need!)

Washing with baking soda (bicarbonate) helps if deodorant is out of the question.

Air drying hair is great. A bit of mascara and maybe lippy are good for compromise vs too much or nothing.

The clothes!! Sometimes popular kids seem to have a corner on certain things and if others wear them, they are not seen kindly. (Don't agree, but understand dynamic.)

My mother dressed me ugly. Right up into my 30s would buy ugly joke worthy things. I let my dc choose with some criticism if I think it is too sexy/revealing or unkept. I am fairly certain that dd then hid clothes that I didn't approve of under her hoodie. I would tell her that self respect and getting respect means dressing with some decorum. She is 20 and I think that she listened eventually. Yes, I know I was a naggy mother at times. Could have avoided rows by keeping quiet, but if your mother doesn't say something out of love/concern, who will? (I also said that and 1000xs said that I don't criticise to be mean, but bc I worry. I was wrong sometimes and admitted it, grouchy but trying to keep communication open)

Good hygiene and self respect are important.

We gave dc pets and they are responsible for them. This seemed to be good for making friends, having the pet for companionship and teaching them to be responsible. DD is very introverted and her dog is a lifesaver. Her friends love him, she loves him, she posts him on sm. Pets are wonderful conversation starters.

Instead of sleepover, I think pizza was best. This is a tough time, she needs acceptance and also to think out of herself. Please think about a nice pet? They are more comforting than parents and are wonderful ways to connect with other children that is not personal.

Pizza Birthday meal went well with just one friend and both very chatty and giggly in the car both ways. Other girl that couldn’t make it messaged them both during meal.
DD has a family pet a lovely dog who she adores and talks about endlessly. Both of her friends also have dogs.
Thanks all

That sounds lovely.

One little niggly thing though - you say she wasn't interested in washing before
I nag her all the time about washing and personal hygeniene but she doesn’t care and has never cared
Not caring about washing isn't going to make a huge difference before puberty, so 'has never cared' is a bit of a red herring when it comes to concern about possible depression or other issues like self esteem problems.

I think you should try to get to the bottom of her inertia when it comes to showering. You can be a tomboy and wear comfortable clothes and still shower daily even if you don't use makeup. You can be kind to others even if you shower daily, use antiperspirant, and wear makeup and fashionable clothes.

It seems to me she has created a rigid mental world in which it's all or nothing, and she is going over to the dark side if she gives in inch in the direction of the popular set.

Does she take appearances very seriously?
Is she put off being friends with people who dress fashionably or wear makeup because of their appearance and the associations she has with that, or does she look beneath the surface?
Why did she think her mainly online acquaintances/ friends might be comfortable with a sleepover?

Have you ever had her evaluated for autism spectrum issues?

Hi OP, I asked my dd. She said friend stuff is normal "food chain" pain. She agreed that dogs (OR pets) are a good help through this age.

Said washing or lack of will impact her friendships and ability to get along in school.

Ask her instead of telling her. Maybe she has a reason for not wanting to wash that can be fixed with new razors, hotter water or different soap? Different toothpaste? "I don't want to" is an inadequate response to an important aspect of life.

mathanxiety - we have a perfectly good bathroom and shower once she goes in she’s in for ages and I can hear her singing it’s just getting her in that’s the problem have tried umpteen shampoos, soaps, bath bombs fancy sponges etc she just isn’t interested in showering off her own bat. No not had her tested for autism. She is friends with the girls and has been for a few months sits with them every day at school for lunch and they have a few lessons together they talk online most evenings. I don’t know why she thought they would want to come for a sleepover probably because she thought it would be fun and the girls were both up for it and said they wanted to come. Friend 1’s Mum is away and her and her puppy are staying with her grandma for 4 days she couldn’t sleep over at ours as her mum said the puppy would be too much for grandma over night and the next day. By the sounds of it friend 2’s grandma is ill she lives two hours away so her mum has gone to visit her leaving dad in charge of her and her sisters so her dad said she couldn’t come tonight for some reason but reading between the lines I think she had to keep an eye on her younger sister. Good night all.

It's very concerning that she has to be coaxed into showering and only does it a few times per week.
I really urge you to facilitate some help getting over this and developing better hygiene habits, just as far as surface level behaviour goes. I would be concerned at rigid attitudes toward others and toward her own 'place' among her peers too.

It’s my opinion that year 9 is the peak of it, during year 10 they start to grow through it. By year 11 the majority have grown out of any silliness.

Dd is year 9 too, let’s hang on in there! It’s all a phase. Happy birthday wishes to your dd.

Year 10 was the worst for DD. She endured some really horrific bulying from one particular girl.

How about getting your daughter to join Sea Cadets or Scouts or something that has all sorts of kids but where the emphasis is on having fun, being inclusive and learning new skills? She may find much nicer kids there and would have day trips and weekends away on a regular basis. Could build her self-esteem, looks good on a CV for uni etc and gets her out of the house. X

There was one girl at school who stank to the high heavens. She was a really shy girl, polite, but so shy. I tried to be friends with her, but the smell would make me sick, so I literally couldn't. I believer her mother suffered with depression, and her father was our batshit science teacher.

Your dd is 14 (or 13 as you keep insisting).

She NEEDS to shower every morning! Or every night.
Also, you mention a dog. Dogs also stink. So, the combination of BO and dog smells may be putting her cohorts off.
She can look down her nose at people who take pride in their appearance all she wants, but if she smells, who's gonna want to know her? Nobody.

2 or 3 times a week? Fucking hell. I'd smell myself if I showered that infrequently!
You keep saying she's alternative, but she's not actually into anything? Just gaming it appears.
You need to step up or she'll continue to be the shunned smelly one in the school. If she has her periods, fucking hell, will she even be arsed to change her sanitary towel? You need to step up as her mother.

If your daughter is quiet they must be to and maybe they don’t want to sleep over and are blaming their parents or aren’t allowed as are embarrassed?

I would do the pizza and the arrange the sleepover another weekend, you will have a better idea then? Doesn’t need to be a sleepover for a birthday x

As another poster has said, your daughter sounds very similar to mine although mine is a bit older now. We went through this stuff at school with friends/non friends and the push pull of those relationships. In the end it was just easier for us as a family to say to daughter, where would you like to go for dinner the weekend that was closest to her birthday. On birthday night, her choice as to what we were eating for dinner. So I think there are two parts to your situation and at 14 with the push/pull thing going on at school with other Girls, its great you are being supportive and I don't think you need to step back at all. Perhaps give her the choice of either re=scheduling or just going with the one friend.... ? That way its her decision and she will know how best to proceed with the new friends.

My dd is 16 abd doesn’t shower every day, neither do any of her close friends, there just isn’t time. They all struggle to gef to bed early and to wake up early and make it into school on time. She doesn’t smell as she showers enough not to be smelly, uses deodorant and she changes her clothes regularly.

Do you think your dd is washing herself properly? At 13 2-3 showers a week isn’t quite enough but should be enough to keep her un-smelly.

I doubt this is the reason she doesn’t have a lot of friends though. It sounds to me that she’s one of those kids who defines themselves differently to the others. It’s quite brave to not fit in, much easier to follow the pack so you can see that as a positive thing.

@Daddylonglegs1965 A lot of parents have been or are in your exact position. I wouldn't have her entire birthday contingent on this pizza date. I would organise something lovely and just for family - a weekend trip somewhere AND have the pizza dinner too if possible. But no sleepover. Friendships change rapidly - the 14-16 years are a living nightmare but things do improve.

It depends on whether the self definition is based on a rigid concept of who she is or if that concept is based on who she isn't, if you see what I mean.

If she has defined herself as 'not one of the popular set' and rejects all that she sees on the surface of the popular set (clothing style, makeup, evidence of cleanliness in the form of clean hair and lack of BO) then I would be concerned about taking surface elements too seriously and also about insecurity and self esteem issues, and more.

If there is rigidity in the self concept - to the extent that she doesn't try to socialise with a wide range of peers, doesn't go along with accepted norms of hygiene - and focus on externals in other people, along with the degree of lack of ease as described in the social whirl of school, then I would be concerned about high functioning autism / aspergers.

The moralism that is revealed here seems quite inflexible and out of tune with the reality of hygiene expectations that are actually quite benign. It doesn't hurt to wash daily. Washing yourself daily doesn't turn you into an unkind Mean Girl.

It really is quite brave not to follow the pack, but it is not always a positive thing - it doesn't always reflect a positive self image or healthy self esteem, if it is an expression of a personality that is inflexible or rigid or if it is an expression of extreme shyness or unhealthy focus on the externals other people present.

Just a thought. Ditch the shower gel and use soap instead. Shower gel doesn't clean as well as soap or kill off the bacteria that causes BO.

I don’t agree with many of these posts at all and think many are unnecessarily unkind, illustrate lack of knowledge re teenagers and a degree of sexism.

Autism seriously. Mascara and liostick as a compromise between too much and nothing. Just why???😱

I have 3 teens around this age op and your dd sounds delightfully normal and an individual. She’d get on very well with my dd( just turned 14)and her friends.

My 3 range and go up and down in the personal hygiene stakes. Firstly they are transitioning from children to adults. Hygiene is yet another job to do and can take its time to imbed. Ds 1 needed nagging re deo for aaaages and now at 15 uses it daily with no nagging. He certainly doesn’t shower every day but does fairly regularly.Can smell musty some days but no BO. I have to nag re a lot of things, daily shower low on my priorities. Won’t use skincare and is only vigilant re teeth as has a brace.V popular, def not autistic. Guess all that is ok as he’s a boy. 🤔His brother is the same.

Dd regects make up or makes it into slime.🙄Kitted her out with Bare Minerals at Xmas, hasn’t been touched. I’m so pleased. Have always told her she’s beautiful enough without make up. I envy her confidence. Doesn’t wear a scrap. Prefers to let her gorgeous hair air dry which pisses me off as it looks gorgeous blow dried but again it’s better for her hair and I applaud her lack of fuss to look perfect.She chooses to get up early to shower which is a recent development and due to a new Lush addiction I suspect.We switched to Mitchum a long time ago so didn’t pong when not showering every day. Wearing deo did take some nagging with 2 out of 3 as they didn’t like the cold feel of it.

My dd is lucky enough to have a lovely best friend from primary and 2 other lovely prinary friends close by. She had a dodgy year 7 as was the only girl from her primary. Also ime year 7 is a big show off fest with girls preening and trying to fit in. I was slightly horrified at the level of crop tops, make up and heels as was dd who sounds very like your dd.Many settled a bit after getting it out of their system. There was no bullying as her all girls school were vigilant and there were several like dd, she just had to find her tribe which she did in year 8. Now in year 9 she has some lovely friends. Not a huge gang as like me she is into quality and not quantity but some really lovely girls just like her. They are inseparable at school but don’t do much out of school as so far away. She goes to parties etc to a wider circle now and again and does loads with her old primary friends who are at different schools. She says she’s not in the cool gang but is comfortable in her skin and seems happy and fairly popular.

Basically what I’m trying to say is be proud of her individuality and don’t push make up and fashionable clothes onto her. My dd is like your dd and prefers comfort. She has good taste though. The irony is having rejected the norm she often gets copied, her school bag being a case in point. I screw up a lot as a parent but I’m pleased with dd’s individuality and ever growing confidence which I wish I had.

Being a teenager is s transition stage and a time to learn/ experiment. Hygiene and fashion being a case in point.

Re the birthday my dd really didn’t want a big deal and thus not her friends from school. We took her best primary friend to a near by city, went out to lunch and they went off shopping alone with a sleepover after. Was the best birthday ever apparently. Like you I am a little unsure re all my teens staying in houses of parents I don’t know in a city I don’t know that we’ll. All the other parents appear to be the same. With the demands of homework, sleep etc they don’t arrange hoards of things. May a few shopping trips and a couple of sleepovers between the 3 each half term. If we hadn’t included my dd’s best friend we’d have gone out to lunch as a family and dd would have been happy with that. We’ve taught her to see through social media, keep off it as far as poss and not be pressured into thinking she has to do the same as everybody else. Seems to be working so far.

I just wanted to say i noticed u mentioned dyslexia earlier, i have that and as kid and even now as adult i struggle with mainly remembering daily routines of showers brushing teeth hair etc, its the organisation of time and remembering to do them everyday thats difficult. I will regularly go out house without brushing teeth or hair, or if dont have shower as soon as wake up i run out of time before im needed out, i try and manage it better now but as kid found it hard, this may be case with ur DD, its not she doesnt want to just organisation and timing difficult.