At my wits end with DD(10)

[Stcolumba]

First time poster with 3 DC (DD10, DS8 and DD 3) and loving DH.
For many years our DD10’s behaviour at home has been difficult to say the least. Her temper tantrums would melt an iceberg - full on screaming, swearing, slamming doors, lashing out. They probably happen about once a week but are getting increasingly severe. Her tantrums can be triggered by quite minor issues, but often are a reaction to having her phone confiscated for a more minor transgression.
Anyway, today was probably one of the worst days of my life. She got in a rage in the car while she was in the passenger seat with younger DC in backseats. She was whacking me while I was driving. I got really angry (I know, I know but please bear in mind this has been going on for years) and said I was driving to the local police station because she had assaulted me. Might sound a bit dramatic but I wanted her to understand how serious it was and utterly unacceptable. She went mental and pulled the steering wheel. Nothing happened and I managed to correct it but I was really shaken. My DS was hysterical thinking we all could have been killed. Anyway I pulled over and took her out the car so she could swap seats with DS as I didn’t feel safe with her sitting in the front. Her shoes fell off in the kerfuffle and she was literally standing at the side of the road screaming with no shoes on. Other DC hysterical too and me rapidly losing it.
I really don’t know what to do about her. We’ve tried the positive parenting approach, we’ve tried a lengthy lists of punishments. She just really does not give a shit about any of us. She behaves exactly the same way with DH. She constantly says that she wants to die because her life is so awful (in fact she’s got a v comfortable life). She has no close friends and no hobbies (another source of fights). We have really tried to help with those but she doesn’t want to do ANYTHING. Her behaviour at school and with other adults eg GPs is impeccable so no general behavioural issue. I think she needs some sort of anger management counselling but I honestly don’t know how I’d even get her through the door because she would go crazy if we suggested it. Our other DC are lovely, well behaved and well balanced young people but I worry about the impact this behaviour is having on them. Help!

Red flag at a 10yo with a phone tbh....
Far too young imo. Have you looked through what she does on it??

My dd is nearly 10 and tricky but nothing like this. She’s desperate for a phone but it’s a hard no. I’d consider removing her phone and look at counselling for her and if she won’t go for you. This must be impacting on you all awfully.

This is very severe behaviour and I would be looking into parenting classes / family counselling. I don't mean to imply you are a bad parent but it may give you some help to deal with a child who is obviously struggling emotionally or in some other way.

I agree on the phone point but can't believe that's the cause of behaviour like this.

Depends what she has seen on the phone.

Definitely no phone at 10. Unless she is going independently to places she doesn’t need one.
She needs to understand why she can no longer sit in the passenger seat of the car as it’s too dangerous.

Have you considered any SEN? My autistic daughter had what we thought were dreadful tantrums at that age, but we didn't understand that she had such a hard time holding it together at school she just couldn't carry on at home. She had become aware she was different but didn't know exactly how, or why. She couldn't keep any friends. She didn't want to go out to a club because it was just more hard work and confusion for her.

She may be so reliant on her phone because its contact with the outside world without the strain of having to be in someones company.

Does she get whatever she wants? Is she spoilt? Why does she have a phone?
What consequences does she have for her outburst? I’d leave the room if my dd did that so she doesn’t have an audience. Have you let her get away with more and more?

I think you should look up Autism and girls

She could be holding it together at school too and losing it outside of school.

Probably best to seek some support now rather than later.

Look up whether there's any local SEN support (charity/voluntary). Facebook a good place to find forums etc. Getting referrals and diagnosis will be tough and may not be possible if ok at school.

Don't worry.

A friends daughter got diagnosed at 12. She sounds similar. She's doing well at school but has some extra support in place.

I wonder if some of it is hormonal as she enters puberty?
You have my sympathy Op. It sounds really hard.
I would be considering some kind of family or play therapy for you/her. Short term. To get some advice about what’s is going on. It sounds like the three of you are a bit stuck.
But in the mean time definitely no more phone

ASD was what jumped out for me - she’s about the age where girls who’ve previously been masking quite well sometimes start to really have difficulty. Have a read into it?

I think though it does depend on the year of the 10yr old. She could be in yr6 and sometimes walking home. Mine though didn't have smart phones until secondary but many yr6s did.

How long has she been like this? Is it since getting the phone or is this just one in a long line of episodes? I think that I would either indefinitely confiscate the phone or swap it for a brick phone. Having said that I am not sure if it is just the phone, although she holds it together at school some children can mask their feelings at school and meltdown at home, particularly girls. Having strong boundaries helps, so consistent rules and consequences. Would you and dh have the same sanctions as each other or would one of you be softer than the other? You need to provide a united front.

Talk to her teacher - tell them how she is at home. They may be able to suggest local support groups/courses etc that can help.

This bit stood out to me:
I got really angry (I know, I know but please bear in mind this has been going on for years) ....

You were right to be angry, she was whacking you whilst driving and that is dangerous. Do you feel you were wrong to be angry? Why?

www.verywellhealth.com/signs-of-autism-in-girls-260304

Phone at 10??? Just no.

Firstly remove her phone. A 10 year old doesn’t need one.

Have you had a look into ODD?

Reduce / remove screen time. Be consistent. Bad behaviour = loss of screen that day, or if at bedtime then the next day. Follow through. Be clear in your expectations. Reward when these are met.

We make allowances for hormones, but rudeness and bad behaviour are not tolerated. If DD is in a bad mood, she needs to go out or go to her room to calm down, not take it out on others. I will make time to sit with her and listen whilst she rages, as long as it's not directed at me e.g. things like "it's so unfair, A has their ears pierced" is ok, we'll chat but "i hate you. You're horrible. All i want is my ears pierced " is not tolerated.

It's bloody hard. I have bitten my tongue A LOT.

Children start to walk home from school on their own at 10. I personally feel a phone is important at this stage in preparation for high school. My eldest children have all had a phone by this point and their behaviour is fine. I think you need to speak to your gp and enquire about the family services mental health team in your area. This could be hormones but if it's been going on a while it could be more serious. You desperately need some support but I don't feel that you are to blame for this behaviour but it could impact on younger siblings if you don't get advice. Good luck.

I also agree with previous Apps, it could be ASD.

You say she has meltdowns. Is violent/unsafe. She has no friends. No hobbies. Seems to not care. Says she wants to die. Says life is awful.

This is severe enough to warrant some sort of intervention. In the meantime look at www.autism.org.uk/about/behaviour/school-home.aspx

Some very judgy unhelpful comments on here tonight

Can you go to your GP and ask for help? They may be able to refer you to CAMHS or perhaps you can see an Ed Psych or a Counsellor? Her behaviour sounds challenging and really tough for you all to deal with (including her).

FFS this clearly isnt about a phone - her temper tantrums have been going on for years and the current trigger is her phone.

I agree it sounds as if she could be on the spectrum so I would start with trying to get professional support

Maybe she’s got possible autism? Girls mask it much better than boys.

I wouldn’t let her have a phone full stop.

I would also let some of the minor transgressions go - she may be reacting to be over controlled. Has she become the black sheep of the family?

Red flag at a 10yo with a phone tbh....
Sure, because 10 year olds never had tantrums before phones 🙄

You totally have my sympathy.Please self refer to the school nurse team.They can signpost to other agencies or offer 1:1 work or support/advice.