The dictionary definition of woman is a hate crime now. AIBU or is this political correctness gone mad.

[DJLippy]

Feminists across the UK have "defaced" statues by dressing them in T-shirts containing the dictionary definition of the word woman .More details here.
makemorenoisemanc.wixsite.com/mysite/mmnblog/a-womans-place-is-in-the-resisters-midnight-t-shirt-protest-sparks-outrage

Trans rights groups are calling this a hate crime. I hate to sound like such an old fogie but this it sounds like political correctness gone mad! How is this offensive? What's so offensive about the word woman I don't understand!

So anyone who dares to disagree is an MRA?

Say what you like but the fact is that many women desire 'successful' men. I've seen it time and time again on dating profiles.

"Don't contact me unless you've got your own house and are financially secure."

It's very rare that the men say things like this.

Forrest, no but they do say don't contact me unless you have the right size breasts and the correct length legs and the correctly shaved / manicured / made up look.

And then they try it on with anything that looks vaguely female.

Women do need men who are not a total waste of time and require more looking after than the kids. Men want women who'll satisfy their every sexual fetish and as little responsibility for their own behaviour as possible.

Why is it always women who get the blame. We get the blame when we're focused on looks, as if girls are not told how important it is to be pretty and dress the right way from day 1 of our lives. We get the blame when we get attacked because we choose to be different and not conform to the focus on looks as well. We get the blame when men are violent, because it must be the mother's fault for not looking after their babies even when it's the men who are violent to their children. We get the blame when we walk down a street completely innocently. We get the blame now when men want to be less bound by British cultural stereotypes and immediately think that means they must be female. I do not accept and will never accept that all the problems of the human species lie at my door, not when it is men that almost always swing the clubs.

Say what you like but the fact is that many women desire 'successful' men. I've seen it time and time again on dating profiles.

How is this discussion relevant to the OP?

Men want women who'll satisfy their every sexual fetish and as little responsibility for their own behaviour as possible.

This is a massive generalisation. Do you really think the husbands/sons/brothers of the posters on here are all like that?

as if girls are not told how important it is to be pretty and dress the right way from day 1 of our lives.

But I do think that a lot of this pressure comes from other women. For example, from fashion publications which are notoriously the domain of women and homosexual men. Men generally don't prefer the super skinny look that so many young women strive for, for instance.

Nobody is 'blaming it all on women'. My point was that many men try and achieve a status which appeals to what many women want in a partner - successful and well off amongst other things. I appreciate that many feminists want to beat the glass ceiling etc and reject the traditional role of the woman as being domestic etc, but I've also observed that many women embrace motherhood and are happy to put their career on hold once they meet the right guy. For these women it makes sense that a guy who can support them when they leave the workplace temporarily/go part time will be a more attractive proposition than one who doesn't earn enough for them both to not work.

What point are you trying to make Forrest? That men actually have it worse than women?

What point are you trying to make Forrest? That men actually have it worse than women?

Have you read the thread?

I mentioned male suicide, to which a poster responded that it's linked to trying to achieve a stereotypical male ideal (basically toxic masculinity), to which I replied that this ideal is partly influenced by what many women want in a partner (wealth and success).

I'll ask again. What do these things have to do with the subject of this thread?

I'll ask again. What do these things have to do with the subject of this thread?

What a pompous post.

Why are you asking when you already know how the discussion became diverted?

Pompous or not, you're still derailing, and it's tedious.

Oh dear.. what's happened here..

From what I can make out Forest is now blaming women for male suicide. Not actually that surprised seeing as I recently saw that now women dv victims are also to blame for that.

Forest rather than blaming women why don't you turn your attention to gender stereotypes and perceived societal expectations of masculine and femenine. That goes a lot further than dating sites, and is something feminists wish to eradicate for the benefit of both men and women

ForrestPlumppp I’ve read the entire thread thanks. I’m asking because all your posts are along the lines of ‘yeah but what about this issue that men face?’ Or ‘not all men are like that’. Which I know about. Can’t help but know about it because any time someone wants to talk about things that affect women there’s always someone like you who wants to keep things nicely egalitarian and talk about men.

I can see some of Forests points. It seems like these discussions often involve pretty controversial statements about men which are absolutely not allows to be challenged. It is a public forum at end of the day.

The bit that gets deliberately played on here is that we all know that NAMALT. That men commit suicide at alarming rates, that many men have a fucking awful time based on gender stereotyping. Mainly because we are children of, partnered with, mothers of such men. We are not blind to the hardships they face.

But they are not being discussed her. We are DISCUSSING WOMEN

Why can't we do that without having to allow for men, take them into consideration, measuer our pain against theirs and find ourselves to be the lucky ones?

Just piss off with it. I value this place as I can take that first paragraph for granted and then move on to what threatens me, daily, hourly, every day of my life. I can discuss what the GRA reforms mean for women all over the world. I DON'T HAVE TO EXPLAIN THAT I DON'T HATE MEN until someone like Forrest comes along and insists that I justify my being here.

Sod that for a game of seamstresses !

This is a massive generalisation. Do you really think the husbands/sons/brothers of the posters on here are all like that?

Hahahahahhahaaaaa

Oh thats funny

I do get what you are saying

But women attempt suicide at the same rates...actually i think it maybe more

I think a lot of people are dreadfully unhappy with their lives

I think a lot of people are dreadfully unhappy with their lives.

Agree with this.

As a man I find this forum valuable because it exposes me to perspectives which I don't usually encounter in my day to day life - most of women I know and.work with aren't particularly feminist by the standards on here.

I think people sometimes make the mistake of lumping all feminists together which is bad as some of the Tumblr ones etc are decidely sexist from what I've seen. I think the reason that so many men object to them is because they are attempting to spread the view that men 'have it easy' which is undoubtedly harmful to those who suffer from toxic masculinity or mental issues etc. Personally, I think that it's a small number of men at the top that skew the statistics.

I read an intersting discussion (bun fight) on here recently about class analysis. It gave an example where you could have two groups of people. 10 women and 10 men. 8 of the women earn £50k and then other two are on minimum wage. Of the men 9 are unemployed but the 10th is Donald Trump or Bill Gates. The group of men would.as a class be more wealthy and.peivileged but in reality 9 are unemployed in contrast to 8 of the woman earning £50k. I thought it was an interesting take on the limitations of class analysis.

I think people sometimes make the mistake of lumping all feminists together

I am frequently confounded by some of the ways men (usually, but not exclusively) manage to tie feminism directly to other issues.

Usually it comes out as some crazy pick and mix wordage of "you wanted equality so rape is all your fault" or "feminazis [yawn] already have it better than men who suffer the worst in jobs"

It's just so random and unpredictably bonkers.

I think people just grab at straws sometimes in an effort not to lose an argument. I also think that men often tend to be more hostile/aggressive when arguing as we're socialised to fight for hierarchy (possibly also an evolutionary thing). It's a bit like the people who cut you up in traffic and then get angry when you beep them.

That said, I understand why some people get the notion that feminists are a privileged bunch with the seeming fixation on CEOs and things that the average person man or woman is very unlikely to ever accomplish.

I'm not really a fan of class appraisal whether it's of feminists or men.

I thought it was an interesting take on the limitations of class analysis.

But that isn't anything to do with class analysis, it's a group of 20 people who are not a representative cross section of the population.

You can equally say that black people as a class face structural racism and have less equality of opportunity, and that the existence of Barack Obama, Kanye West and Samuel L Jackson doesn't refute that.

You don't seem to understand how class analysis works.

I don’t doubt that many men have tough and difficult lives - in my view worsened by the fact that they are not allowed to go outside of masculine norms

That is not in question. Particularly not on a forum of predominantly mothers - many of whom are looking for ways to guide their sons towards healthy and happy lives.

It’s not, however, an argument against feminism.

You can equally say that black people as a class face structural racism and have less equality of opportunity, and that the existence of Barack Obama, Kanye West and Samuel L Jackson doesn't refute that.

I agree but my example differs somewhat as typically those at the top are white males. They skew the stats but aren't representative of the majority of men.