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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Neighbours dog has just attacked me and DD.

861 replies

katkat90 · 27/01/2019 18:39

Have had issues with them in the past

They are elderly, with two large breed dogs (think Great Danes?). They cannot control them. Honestly the amount of times I have seen them nearly pull them over in the street/simply pull out of their grasp and go bouncing off and jumping all over people is untrue.

Was walking back from the shop and saw them coming from a distance so I stepped to the side into another neighbours driveway and next thing I know- one of them had pulled out of its owners grasp and came bounding over and knocked DD (who is just about getting confident with her toddling) over.

It was over in seconds- by the time I put the break on the pram (was stood on a slopes drive so it would of ran off into the road) and went to grab DD she was already on the floor the dog barking at her- so I kicked it to get it away, and it bit my leg.

I was furious. Owner very embarrassed an apologetic but I’ve said enough is enough and I would be contacting the police and the RSPCA.

Heaven forbid it bounded on the pram and just decided to bite my 2 week old. It would of taken her head off no doubt.

V shaken and waiting for DH to get home to call the police and RSPCA.

I’ve also messaged his daughter on Facebook

OP posts:
Sparklesocks · 27/01/2019 20:50

If your child is knocked over and is being barked at by something twice her size then your protective instincts will kick in. You aren’t logically thinking through a detailed plan, you are reacting with adrenaline to what you perceive as a dangerous situation and it’s fight or flight. In OP’s situation she kicked the animal to get it away.

MrMeSeeks · 27/01/2019 20:51

And yep, i agree that many defending this dog are probably the type of dog owners that give the rest of us bad rep

Im defending that the dogs shouldn't be put down due to bad owners. They are the ones in the wrong. The dog understandably bit.
I think the dogs should be rehomed.
I think calling dogs vermin isHmm

Pissedoffdotcom · 27/01/2019 20:52

If your child falls into a pool you don't have to weigh up how the water is going to react if you jump in to save them.

If you shout at a dog, it could run away, or it could attack you.
If you turn your back, it could run away, or it could jump up at you & send you flying.
If you stand still, it could run away, or it could come closer.

There are far too many variables involved with reading a live animal - especially if you don't own them. So all the advice on this thread is brilliant, IF you know the dog. Otherwise, every action could cause the dog to bite just as kicking it did.

FlawedAmazon · 27/01/2019 20:53

The people at fault here are the owners. The OP did what she felt she needed to protect her children.

I'm a massive dog fan, but if my children were threatened I'd retaliate. What the OP did was no doubt a knee-jerk reaction and is understandable. What if a child had tried to defend themself and the dog had bitten them?

This could've ended a lot more badly than it did. Those people should not have dogs they cannot control. The dogs need to go to someone who knows how to train and look after large breeds.

hickerydickerydockmouse · 27/01/2019 20:53

Seriously? people are now telling the OP that it is her fault for not dealing with the dog properly? Why should it go even this far? It was the owners responsibility to keep the dog in control and they didn't. Dog was being aggressive towards the toddler and even I would have kicked the dog if it was acting like that towards my child. Non-dog owners shouldn't have to learn how to deal with dogs in these situations. Why should we have to be careful around them when all we want is to be left alone. We didn't choose to keep them with us in our homes. People who keep dogs are the ones who should be responsible to keep their dogs in check. And if they can't control them then they don't deserve to keep them.

Legumewaffle · 27/01/2019 20:54

Sounds scary for you op. But not sure it would hit the threshold for 'dangerously out of control in a public place', which is the offence you'd be looking at. If you hadn't had kicked the dog then maybe, but it is normally reserved for say a dog running around biting people unprovoked.

There won't be very much the police can do about it but they might offer to speak to your neighbour and give them advice. Obviously up to you to call them though, I'm no expert.

Lizzie48 · 27/01/2019 20:55

It is not the duty or responsibility of the public to research dog behaviour. If a huge dog, a Great Dane sized dog, is barking at a toddler they have just knocked to the floor, the owners are responsible for whatever happens to the dog.

This 100%. I think I'd have kicked the dog as well in the OP's shoes. It was an instinctive response to seeing the great big dog knocking her toddler over and then barking at her.

Pissedoffdotcom · 27/01/2019 20:57

Dog owners need to familiarise themselves with the law. A dog doesn't need to actually hurt a person for it to be legally out of control. The mere thought that it will hurt someone - which OP did - is enough to potentially warrant a control order. The dog being off lead & the owners being unable to call it back means legally it was out of control

NicolaStart · 27/01/2019 20:58

DeadBudgie
Beaverhausen, RomanyRoots, Lockheart, Geminijes and PinkGin have all blamed and had a go at the OP. Maybe more, I didn’t check the whole thread.

Dog apologists.

Molakai · 27/01/2019 21:01

I am a dog owner.
The fault lies squarely with the owners. The dog should never have been in a position to have knocked a toddler over and caused distress to the OP. End of.

What the OP described was a large dog out of control which is frightening for most of us, and could lead to people and/or the dog getting hurt.

However, for all of you saying "I would do anything to protect my child from a dog", please take note: kicking the animal is likey to make the situation worse not better. Kicking or hitting the dog would make it more likely that you or your child gets hurt.

I am not saying the OP deserved to get bitten, I'm saying that there was an alternative course of action which probably would have saved the OP from being bitten. And I think that is worth saying. It takes none of the responsibility away from the owners, but surely, in a difficut situation, surely it is better to be safe than "right"?

I really feel for you OP - it must have been a very scary experience. I hope action is taken so the dogs are rehomed safely. Nothing in what you described suggests to me that the dog should be put down.
[flowers} for you OP

Molakai · 27/01/2019 21:01
Flowers
Booboostwo · 27/01/2019 21:01

If you are crossing the road at a zebra crossing you have priority over cars but it would be really stupid to teach your DCs to cross without looking. When they got run over because a driver was speeding, inattentive, having a heart attack, driving a car with broken brakes or whatever, you’d be in the right but have an injured child. That is why you teach children to look both ways before crossing a road even if they have right of way.

The same goes for dogs. Understanding dog body language and behaving prudently around dogs, means you are less likely to be bitten by them regardless of how at fault the dog and/or its owners are.

The aim is to prevent bites. This message seems to be lost on people frothing at the mouth over the very existence of dogs.

QueenieInFrance · 27/01/2019 21:03

Members of the public are not responsible to know how to deal with a dog running towards them, jumping, barking etc....
IT IS NOT THEIR ROLE TO KNOW HOW TO REACT OR TO LEARN THE RIGHT WAY TO DO SO.

It is the owners responsibility to have the dog under control so that sort of situation doesn’t happen.
People who say that the dog ‘just reacted’ to be kicked, did it cross your mind that people might ‘just react’ to what they see as a big and da gérons dog attacking their child???

I am personally very careful around dogs, especially when I dint know them (previous bad expwrience if been attacked by stray dogs - nit in this country).
A big dog like this who would run towards me wouod make me freeze in a panic.
One that wouod have knock my toddler over and was starting to bark at her, face and teeth miles to close to her face to my liking... it wouod have ended with my kicking the dog away and screaming at the owners.
I’m nit planning to learn how to react if this was happening because
1- owners shouod be able to stop their dogs before they scare people like this
2- how do you expect me to learn and then act in a way that is going completely at the opposte if what I feel if I’m never around dogs (which is the case - see my fear if dogs)???

ChakiraChakra · 27/01/2019 21:03

@Piglet89

No PhD in dog psychology needed. Have to READ your previous paragraph? Seems like you’ve had to carry out a fair bit of analysis, TBH.

I did - and I shared some hopefully simple instructions that people could use if they found themselves in a similar situation. As somebody else has pointed out, my instructions were crude (because they are simple and one size fits all) and may not work for every scenario. I will stand by them because I believe they are far less likely to result in a dog bite than kicking a dog who has not yet bitten.

The dog DID attack someone: it bounded up and knocked over the OP’s wee one, then started barking at it. Just put yourself in the wee one’s shoes: how terrifying must that ordeal have been?

As I say, the dog absolutely should not have been out of control. NO excusing that.

I can only imagine how scared the child, and their mother must have been. Totally understandable.

I get that it felt like an attack. But it was NOT an attack. Accidentally knocking somebody over (Which is what this sound like, with the obvious caveat nobody on mumsnet except the OP actually witnessed it), is not an attack. Barking at somebody is not an attack. It may feel like an attack, it may be very scary to experience, but nothing the OP has said leads me to believe that it was an attack.

Dog owners: we DO. NOT. CARE. why your dog is displaying overt signs of aggression. Quit making excuses for owners’ poor control of their animals, or claim nonsense like “It’s not being aggressive, just playful”. We don’t know that, and loud barking, particularly from a huge dog, is terrifying for most.

I totally get and respect that it is terrifying. It's also unacceptable that it ever happened; the owner should have had control over where the dog physically was, period. No excuses for an out of control dog. I'm the one with a few choice words to say if somebody else's dog is out of control and "only wants to play" with one of my, (under control but terrified) dogs.

I merely wish to defend the dog in the OP's scenario because it does matter whether or not the dog had aggressive intent, especially towards a human. A dog responsible for an attack on a member of public should be euthanized. A dog who is worrying (doesn't have to be attacking) sheep can be shot, ewes lose lambs very easily.

The first and foremost line of defense against all these incidents is for the dog to be well trained and under control. No excuses.

In my previous post I talked about effectively the second line of defense. Apologies if that wasn't clear. We can't control somebody else's dog handling; we can control our response if an incident happens. I can't make everybody who owns a dog out there effective dog handlers (although I will help anybody who wants it). If the advice I give on a forum helps prevent an innocent member of the public from being bitten, If they find themself if a situation which they shouldn't have to find themselves in, that's fine by me.

QueenieInFrance · 27/01/2019 21:07

Sorry but this is very different than a distracted driver.
A dog that cannot be recalled shouldnt be left off a lead.
A dog that can pull his owner over and cannot be controlled shouldn’t be left with said owner.

You telling people they shouod learn will nit make some people more confortable around dogs nor will it teach them how to ‘behave’ Around a dog.
Because when You are really scared shitless, none of that will matter. You will react automatically in a fight or fly mode. Nit in a rational mode.

Plus it’s miles too easy to then say it’s the fault of that person because they didn’t react the right way. Like it has been dine on this thread many times.
But somehow an owner that can’t control his dogs is left if the hook. Hmm

BlueWonder · 27/01/2019 21:07

This must have been really scary. Not directly, connected but if your DD is a toddler, was she on reins? If something similar happens again, or she is spooked by another dog because of this experience, you will have much better control or be able to swing her up and out of the way in an instant - even more so if you're trying to manage a pushchair as well.

RomanyRoots · 27/01/2019 21:08

I'm very sorry to dog lovers, but to me they are shit factories or working dogs. I was scared by one when younger, not the owners fault.
However, I know that if I attacked one by kicking it, sure as eggs are eggs it would defend itself by biting. It's hardly likely to kick you back.
OP attacked the dog, the owners are a different issue and need to be in control or dogs rehoused.
It's not the dogs fault it bit, it was OP's.

Josiebloggs · 27/01/2019 21:09

I'm astonished by some of the replies to this. The dog was out of control the minute it approached another person, if a dog doesn't totally ignore other people, dogs etc it should be on a lead. If it can break its lead and run off it is no longer under control. I have been in a similar situation where 5 dogs off the lead approached us. I picked my child up and 2 dogs started jumping up at me and nipping. The delightful dog owner then informed me it was my fault as they only wanted to say hello and I had caused them to react that way by taking child away Hmm

sollyfromsurrey · 27/01/2019 21:10

I love dogs. I have dogs. My dogs do not bowl people over and stand over them barking. If someone did that to a toddler, I would kick it out of the way. Clearly the dog was not trained at all and so at that point, all bets are off. I am prioritising the child.

QueenieInFrance · 27/01/2019 21:10

We can't control somebody else's dog handling; we can control our response if an incident happens.

I’m very strongly disputing that.
YOU might be able to control your reaction because you are used to be around dogs and can understand their behaviour or have had the opportunity to practice those skills.
Someone who is never or rarely in contact with dugs, who is scared ny them, doesn’t know anything about how aggressive or not a dog is... I’ll gather that there is little chance that you can control your reaction or think back about a post in MN about how to react if a dog seems to be attacking you.

Molakai · 27/01/2019 21:10

QueenieInFrance Do you refuse to lock your doors because burglars shouldn't steal?

Do you refuse to look both ways at junctions or roundabouts because you have right of way and everyone else should obey the highway code?

Do you refuse to get a smoke alarm because no-one should leave a candle unattended or forget the gas is on? etc. etc.

Your refusal to consider how to behave around dogs is bonkers. Dogs exist! It is a nonsensical way to look at the world - because humans are fallible and we live in a world with other humans.

Weathermonger · 27/01/2019 21:11

I'm a dog owner, have been for over 30 years, big dogs too. However perhaps the other, obviously more knowledgeable dog owners can enlighten me as to what constitutes a "dog attack". The way I read it the OP tried to avoid the dogs, however the dog broke away from its owner, made a beeline directly to the OP (who in case you missed it) was trying to avoid the dogs, knocked over a toddler and then stood over it barking. Sounds like an attack to me, sounds absolutely fucking terrifying for the child and the mother, but hey if it lets you sleep at night, let's just call it an excitable dog. Maybe the next time the OP can put her toddler on a leash, and make it easier for all those other excitable dogs and their idiot owners.

Aeroflotgirl · 27/01/2019 21:12

Op did what any mother would to protect her child, I can't believe people are criticising you for it, an expect you to know what to do,it's not public knowledge. The blame is quarterly on the shoulders of the owners, who should!d have been in control of their dogs which they are not, and are incapable of controlling the dogs. You need to report to the RSPCA.

Molakai · 27/01/2019 21:13

But somehow an owner that can’t control his dogs is left if the hook.

Queenie Who has said the owners are "off the hook" ?? No-one.

sollyfromsurrey · 27/01/2019 21:13

I'd also like to add that if someone kicked one of my dogs, they are most likely to cower and run off. Not attack.