To think a lot of people don't really care about others?

[marymarkle]

By others I mean those outside their family and friends. I know there are exceptions. People who volunteer and go out of their way to do lovely things for others who need a helping hand.
But most people vote for the policies that benefit them and their family, don't care about things that harm the vulnerable if they are not part of that group, and won't go out of their way to help someone who is not a family member or friend.

But that's such a privileged position to come from, don't you see? Most people need to compete for jobs so that they will get paid, the better start you have the more likely you are to get a better paid job and be better able to support your family!

We have very high employment rates, there is not significant competition in the job market - for some jobs, both the one with low barriers to entry (no qualifications required or just GCSEs) and ones that are popular, there's significant competition - but there's plenty of work out there for people not travelling such hard worn paths.

Maybe there are a lot of people, even (gasps) Tory voters, who do help people but don't broadcast it?

Goodness, where on earth do all you people live, if you think you’re surrounded by selfish folk who don’t care?!
Our village and our church are very caring of strangers, and so are all genuine Christians, of which this country has millions!
Some small examples of caring about strangers:
Someone who passed through our village dropped a scarf (with huge sentimental value, given by their late mum). They posted on the village FB page asking if anyone had found it.
The villager who had picked it up, muddy from the shop car park, washed and pressed it for them. When the person said they lived 50 miles away and couldn’t get back for it, a second villager volunteered to drive 50 miles to return it while working away from home.
Second example: An Australian couple who had just married in Oz, asked if they could fly over to exchange rings and have a blessing from our minister in our village church in Scotland where the man’s ancestor had married 300 years ago.
The minister and congregation secretly laid on an entire wedding, for free, with a home baked cake, biscuits shaped as kangaroos, a bouquet, photographer, and church elder in full kilt and regalia to give the bride away! The whole congregation turned up in their wedding guest outfits and we held a little reception in the church cafe.
The couple were overwhelmed, as they’d never met us before and were strangers from the other side of the world.
The teenagers in our congregation raised enough money to rebuild three houses destroyed in the Nepal earthquake, and have an ongoing project to sell rice to fund African kids through high school.
We support a missionary partner who’s a trained obstetrician in the third world, providing lifesaving services to labouring mothers in remote areas.
Our church plate offerings fund a whole range of care homes, drop
in services, support of vulnerable families etc. Individual parishioners also support their own choices of charities at home and abroad.
You can multiply that across every church in Britain- I think simple maths would suggest that most people DO care about others! Think of the huge response to disaster appeals too, or donations to local food banks etc. There is still much good in the world - don’t despair.

I know what you mean and sadly think you're right. There are certain people I've known, who whilst one cannot say they are bad people, they on the surface of it are helpful/goody goodies, BUT if someone really needs their help, or it would mean them putting themselves out just a little too much they back off. Most of those sort seem to have one thing in common - no children. That doesn't mean everyone without children is selfish of course, before I get flamed!

but there's plenty of work out there for people not travelling such hard worn paths.

on one side, I can't disagree because we struggle so much to find motivated employees in some areas that we need to recruit non-English speakers - no racism, it would just be easier if people could speak fluently English.

On the other hand, the more interesting jobs and the better paid ones have a HUGE competition. If you have to spend 40 or 50 hours a week at work, why wouldn't you want to get the best possible salary and the most interesting job? No point working for surviving, you work to give your family a nice life and have enough luxuries to make it worth it.

and some of us end up being paid for being on MN

On the other hand, the more interesting jobs and the better paid ones have a HUGE competition. If you have to spend 40 or 50 hours a week at work, why wouldn't you want to get the best possible salary and the most interesting job? No point working for surviving, you work to give your family a nice life and have enough luxuries to make it worth it.

Well I didn't say you can't compete if that's what rocks your kazbar, I'm saying you don't have to. Some people just want to go to work, set themselves on autopilot and save all their mental energy for when they get home to their real life.

And I'm sceptical about there being interesting jobs tbh - everything that seems interesting somehow manages to become unbearably tedious when turned into a "job".

there's plenty of work out there for people not travelling such hard worn paths.

Once again you're talking about privilege. People who have better education are more likely to know about less competitive areas of work. The majority of people in this country are competing.

Once again you're talking about privilege. People who have better education are more likely to know about less competitive areas of work. The majority of people in this country are competing.

It might be privilege but it's not one that requires competition. Learning is not a zero sum game (even if some paths to it are), knowing about options is not zero sum. Work is often not zero sum, more people producing products like X the more work there is for people to work on products like X. Yes eventually markets saturate, but the more money people earn the more they have to spend.

There are zero sum games in this world, but does everyone have to play them? No way.

My parents have never bought their council house even though they would pay less in a mortgage than rent.

My maternal grandparents were the same. When Right to Buy was first introduced, they disagreed with it and refused to buy their council house on principle. It was a 4-bed house in southeast England so would have been worth a tidy sum 30+ years later.

And I'm sceptical about there being interesting jobs tbh
haven't you got one? What do you do?

I like my job, it's fun, it's challenging, it's interesting and there's no one treating me like a 4 year old. If I win the lottery, I'd quit immediately, but in the meantime there are a lot of worst ways to earn a living. When I feel like it, I go on Mn...

Behold Brexit and its Leavers. Nuff said.

I believe in property ownership
But will probably never own a property

I believe in helping out new businesses and lowering benefits
Even though I am not a business owner and do claim some benefits

I believe that people should be able to pay for a better standard of life for their kids- private school, private healthcare, holidays- even though I cannot afford those things

There is nothing that scares me more than communism, statism and lack of liberty. If you take away peoples ambitions and dreams and reasons for working hard and pushing through, what do you leave them with? Even if those dreams are unattainable. So, I may never be able to pay for those things, but I can raise my DCs to think that there is a benefit to working hard so that they can have those things themselves one day.

What's the point in raising them in a world in which they can struggle, work hard, make it out the other end and then what? Give it straight back to the tax man. SMH.

Yeah I agree. I’ve always tried to do whatever I could to help people, but many have an I’m alright jack sort of idea about things. Sadly burned too many times and make a conscious effort not to be that way any more, and no longer judge those who take care of only their own.

@DonCorleoneTheThird

Only job I've had since leaving uni was software dev - and I like building software in my spare time, but building boring marketing software that I honestly believe makes the world a worse not better place was deeply tedious and demotivating tbh.

I am a SAHM now so I can build all the open source software I want without having to worry about it becoming "work" - I can take a break whenever I like.

I've been fretting about this recently. A planning application near my house has made it clear that my neighbours have an 'I'm all right Jack' and NIMBY attitude that actually sickens me. No empathy for others, very little generosity of spirit.

I'm well off people at the moment.

Babdoc
that's lovely.

I really think you can help others and be very generous whilst still putting your children and yourself first. Many people can have a lovely holiday and still contribute hours of their time helping out others - it doesn't have to be one or the other.

YANBU, it's all about who you're close to, we're still very tribal.

@DomCorleone yes of course I would refuse to do those things! I’d like private education to be abolished completely so why on earth would I pay for my offspring to be part of something I’m so morally opposed to? I wouldn’t expect a house deposit from my parents even if they were millionaires, why should I be entitled to that? I don’t even want to inherit their house even though it would of course benefit me greatly. So no, I wouldn’t give my kids a deposit/buy them a car/sneak them into jobs using my own connections (delete as appropriate). I had no such help, financial or otherwise, getting to where I am, which is quite a prestigious job, and I’d want to instil that same mindset in any kids I have. I also don’t want to be part of anything remotely elitist or nepotistic

Yeah, the attitude of left wing remainers to Brexit has showed me that nearly all self styled lefties are exactly like this.

And I say this as a left leaning person who voted remain.

To those who will vote to pay more tax, you do know you can voluntarily pay more tax to the HMRC. Why wait?

pickleme: I've been fretting about this recently. A planning application near my house has made it clear that my neighbours have an 'I'm all right Jack' and NIMBY attitude that actually sickens me. No empathy for others, very little generosity of spirit.

What was the planning application for?

@snoutandab0ut I used to resent the fact other people's parents helped them with their homework or even just make them do it - let alone bigger stuff like house deposits and private school.

I honestly find that terribly sad snoutandab0ut that some people could have - hypothetical- children growing up knowing that they have no support or help from their parents.

That's the complete opposite to the values I am teaching my kids, about being there for each other and supporting each other. Having a strong family support never prevented anyone from working hard and reaching top levels. Spoiling your kids encouraging laziness is one thing, but not giving them a hand or a push when you can?

I would try to help any friend or family member who asks if I can, would help even if they don't ask but I am in a position to do so, and my kids absolutely come first.

I think it's pretty shit to grow up with parents who chose not to be there for you when they could afford it.

@blueshoes a small development of affordable housing, details not yet developed. It was a concept meeting, to find out what the community would like. The community very clearly liked private houses, as "the people who live in social housing will cause problems, and it will look awful, and our houses will be devalued, and parking will be awful, and and and...." it was a true pitchforks and torches demonstration. Very sad.

All of the virtue signalling posters on here! What percentage of your salary do you honestly give to charity? Do you own your own home? Did you move to the best area you could so that your children can go to an ‘outstanding’ or ‘good’ school rather than a struggling one with many pupils living below the poverty line? Do you ‘throw a few crumbs’ to someone to clean your house/wash your car/mow your lawn? Do you have aspirations for your children to be a doctor or a scientist or a lawyer?

Unless you are paying your rent (not mortgage), your bills, living off the most basic of foods and wearing the most basic of clothing, not spending on anything else at all and donating the rest of your money to charity every month, then you really aren’t doing your best are you? And one could be described as selfish. Putting that into perspective is bananas isn’t it?