AIBU to ask if school can go through my son's phone?

[ejk10]

This hasn't happened to my son yet -but he thinks it might, and happened to some of his friends today.

Apparently a child has made a statement which the school is investigating (none of the boys have been told what the complaint is) and a teacher demanded to look through this boy's phone and deleted some information. My son has not been questioned but is friends with those who have been and is wondering if the school would ask to look at his phone.

I'm not sure of the legalities of this. Part of me thinks if he has nothing wrong why worry if they look - another part of me thinks it is a huge invasion of privacy. My son assures me he has done nothing wrong - regardless of whether he has or not I'm questioning if they have the right to look through private data.

Can anyone shed any light?

In determining a ‘good reason’ to examine or erase the data or files the staff member should reasonably suspect that the data or file on the device in question has been, or could be, used to cause harm, to disrupt teaching or break the school rules.

“The right of your child usurps the right of the child that is being abused and bullied.”

It’s a matter of law and common sense. Would I encourage my child to help and offer electronic information regarding a child being bullied? Of course I would.

Would I allow my child to be forced by a teacher or police under coercion, deception of threat to reveal his phone pin? Of course not.

I would consult with my child, seek legal advice if required and help in any way I could.

How come the security services are constantly badgering WhatsApp and Facebook to allow them access then?

Because they don't already have access, genius.

“Because they don't already have access”

That’s right.

I am astonished at how many of you think that your child's right to wander around with harassing images and the like on their phones trumps the rights of the victims of these images! I really hope that your child is never the victim for the child's sake but I am wondering how many of you would be as accepting if it was your child victimised and how many of you would be happy if the school shrugged and said it was the harasser's right to keep the images - particularly in the case of images that are likely to cause distress and embarrassment, but are not actually illegal.

StreetwiseHercules

So you would support the school in the confiscation of the phone and subsequent passing on of the phone to the police with the possible consequence of your child not receiving the phone back because they haven't been coerced but refused to give up their pin when asked?

OP: when did you last check your DC's phone?

Serious point - one needs to check that DC are acting safely and sensibly online. It's not a privacy issue (akin to reading a diary), when you are responsible for a minor who uses a device that lets them broadcast round the world.

“So you would support the school in the confiscation of the phone and subsequent passing on of the phone to the police with the possible consequence of your child not receiving the phone back because they haven't been coerced but refused to give up their pin when asked?”

Correct, but why would the child not receive the phone back?

There are some proper fucking idiots here shouting the odds about the kid’s rights when actual harm could have been done by him and his mates. Just let the school do their job. They don’t want to search him, but they might have good reason to. Just support them

Well said Mosschopz

I ve had this experience with my DS. He was asked to hand his phone over to his head of year in order for him to check the camera contents. He had two saved images of teaching staff from social media that had been messaged to him. Clearly this was inappropriate. The sender of these messages had told staff who he had shared them with. They had been posted on social media with derogatory captions which my DS had known about. The head of year then deleted the whole camera roll, hundreds of images. We supported the school in their intervention but I did feel deleting all of his pictures was inappropriate. We met with the head of year to discuss this. They said DS gave his consent. I have told DS to request our presence at school should anything like it ever occur again. I'd be very surprised if it did, he learnt a harsh lesson but I did feel the school over stepped the mark.

Gracious, far from overstepping the mark, if that had been my child I’d have offered to go into school to do the deleting for them to save them wasting time. Then the phone would be placed in a bucket of water. If they wanted a phone they’d have to start saving to buy one. Inappropriate use of internet and media means they’re not mature enough to be allowed unsupervised access.

I agree that the phone needs to be checked and I do this regularly as well as his other online presence- and have done so tonight. There is nothing of any concern on there. As someone further up the thread stated - the phone contract is in my name and as such ultimately is my responsibility which is why if they want to check the phone I should be there.

I cannot tell you how much I have impressed on both my children that no information is ever truly deleted from technology. My mantra to them has always been not to write anything that you would not be happy to say face to face - and that anything that is shared in anyway electronically is there forever.

Haven't RTFT so don't know if this has been said.

But don't let him take his phone into school. He doesn't NEED a phone in school. No-one does.

Problem solved.

Op I guarantee your son KNOWS why the school wants to check his phone. He wouldn't come home and say he was concerned his phone was going to be checked if he didn't. His friend's phone had something deleted from it. Something that made him think his phone was going to be checked. Now he's no doubt deleted evidence from his phone but has been worried enough to come and speak to you about it. I'd be far more concerned about what my son and his friends had been up to rather than their right to privacy

Ds14, came home a while ago, had to see head of year. Someone had sent him a WhatsApp of 2 boys fighting. So HoY checked to see if he’s sent it to others (he hadn’t) and asked for ds’s password and deleted the video himself.

It never occurred to me to think about his rights regarding his phone. I was more concerned about the fact that I hoped he was telling the truth- he had not forward the video, and that both boys were ok (ds said it was pushing with one hit so not as serious as it could have been’).

I was pleased that the school had got on top of it immediately. I send my child to school hoping he’s safe, as I’m sure the parents of the other boys were.

God forbid ds was ever involved in anything, I hope other parents wouldn’t be so difficult by putting in obstacles to the school finding info on students phones.

@cauliflowersqueeze you are wrong - even the document you link to makes that clear:

"Statutory guidance for dealing with electronic devices"

"Where the person conducting the search finds an electronic device that is prohibited by the school rules or that they reasonably suspects has been, or is likely to be, used to commit an offence or cause personal injury or damage to property, they may examine any data or files on the device where there is a good reason to do so"

So as I said extremely narrow grounds

Birdie - I said it does not have to be solely linked with criminal offences?!

The line you have selected is one bullet point of the guidance from pages of it - and if staff thought there were offences potentially being committed they would liaise directly with the police.

Reasonable suspicion that it has or could be used to cause harm or disrupt teaching or break school rules is about as broad as you can get.

Refusal to cooperate would leave to permanent exclusion

No, it wouldn't. Permanently excluding on this ground alone would be unlawful.

StreetwiseHercules

Correct, but why would the child not receive the phone back?

Because if it goes to the police it could end up being part of an investigation that may not be closed.

SaturdayNext

No, it wouldn't. Permanently excluding on this ground alone would be unlawful.

on this alone yes, but it also depends on what it was linked to.

Sorry but I wouldn’t allow the school to go through my kids phone. Not allowed and so very very wrong.

Sorry but I wouldn’t allow the school to go through my kids phone. Not allowed and so very very wrong

It is allowed, under the circumstances linked to several times on this thread.

Why is it ‘wrong’

And, um, the school do not need your permission.

If children and parents insist on children having phones in school then this is the way schools mitigate against the both the enormous safeguarding risk they can pose and the risk to severe disruption to the learning of all children.

And the loud minority yelling 'just refuse' on this thread highlights where teacher time goes, namely sucked into dealing with incidents involving students where the parents decide their child has more rights than responsibilities.

The main reason a student would see a parent/teacher pre-emptively in sich circumstances is because they know they've done something wrong or there's something not quite right there (see also, getting home to tell mum you got a detention just for asking a question to get in before the teacher points out that actually the lesson was interrupted 5 times by the student and when the class was doing work in exam conditions, they were talking to a peer). I'd wonder what was on a teenager's phone where they've come home to pre-emptively gain parental support against phone checks.

PSHE covers esafety and responsible technology use. No school has the time or inclination to randomly start searching phones for private diaries, and to be honest we hear a lot of stuff anyway from students and just being on duty. Phone checking isn't a daily event. It is something to be done if there is a real concern about a situation (as others have outlined).

“their child has more rights than responsibilities”

Children do.

"on this alone yes, but it also depends on what it was linked to"

Given the criteria for searches in school, it will be serious bullying or the sharing of pornographic/extreme violence/abuse images. And yes, exclusion is a real possibility. Because if the pupil had nothing to hide, why not demonstrate that?

If humiliating footage of fellow pupils is being shared, the school really needs to clamp down hard and immediately. Which includes finding out how widely shared, and whether actually deleted (as far as specific device permits).