SAHPs

[AvadaKedavra1]

So a little conversation on FB, well a debate.

Here is snippet:

Me: Those who choose to spend time as stay at home parents should be able to afford such a luxury. If you can't afford it, it's simple, go to work.

Poster: little bit ignorant.. I’m not saying their whole life I’m saying until their 5. Until they’re emotionally ready to be away from their parent

Me: Some people don't have that luxury. 5 years is a long time to be out of the workforce. Sorry but I want the best for my little girl and I want her to know when she grows up she can have a career as well as children. You won't have much luck apart from a minimum wage job if leave work for 5 years. Career gone. Poof.

Emotionally ready? I was 16 weeks when my mum went back to work full time and our relationship is great, she's my rock. I'm also a lot more realistic knowing my mum had to go out an earn a living. Christ these days it is a rare luxury for a mum to be at home for the first 5 years, it isn't financially sustainable for most. Besides, kids need to mix with other children, learn to be separated from mummy/daddy well before they go to school. My little girl will be just turning 4 when she goes to school.

You are the ignorant one if you are that blind sighted that you think it's that simple to just stay at home for 5 year when you can't afford it!

I definitely don't agree with 'let's stay at home for 5 years and rely on the benefit system to put food in my child's mouth'.

Ludicrous and entitled.

Was BU? What are your thoughts?

When I said 'benefit parent' I meant someone who is plainly choosing not work even though they can and solely relying on state welfare

You mean like you are right now?
You mean like you easily could be if you hadn't got a promotion?
You mean like you have been for the last several months?

A SAHP is a luxury but has very many downsides
It's only a luxury if its a choice. I dint work because we'd need 121 care for my son and we can't afford that. If I worked full time both DH and I would be out 8 - 6 so that's 50 hours of 121 childcare per week. In reality that would be two people. Even with what we could claim and offset for childcare through tax credits etc we can't afford that.

It doesn't show a work ethic to children so they can't learn that through the other adults around them or shick by the actual SAHP working just not in a paid job? A Mom of three getting up at 6 every morning to get breakfast and uniforms ready, the house being cleaned and dinner on the table whilst running around after a baby, a pre schooler and a school aged kid shows more work ethic than the co parent working 9-5 in an easy office job who thus does very little around the house.

As a SAHP I'm studying for a degree and go away a few times a year to volunteer. Plenty of opportunity to show hard work AND that there's more value in life than your economic output.

It can mean limited experiences due to lack of income etc surely that applies to the working poor too? Many families have two working parents who are both then comparatively time poor AND cash poor

So what you are saying is it's ok to work and claim benefits, but not ok to claim when you aren't working.
What if you have a spouse who works and you claim tc, and the amount allows a sahp, do you not like people who do this OP.
You could do it yourself if you cut back enough.

inews.co.uk/news/childcare-jobs-underpaid-education-epi-report/

"Childcare workers are poorly qualified, underpaid and struggling to recruit more staff, research suggests. 'Many workers are experiencing serious financial hardship,' one of the report's authors warned

The Early Years Workforce in England report, published on Thursday, reveals that those in the childcare sector face increasing financial pressures and have few opportunities to gain higher qualifications. Nursery nurses, childminders, play workers, and teaching and educational support assistants have suffered real-term pay losses of 5 per cent since 2013, the Education Policy Institute (EPI) found. Dr Sara Bonetti, of the EPI, said: “There is overwhelming evidence that high-quality childcare plays a vital role in the outcomes of a child’s life, with a skilled, qualified workforce absolutely central to delivering this

“This report should therefore concern parents who use childcare services and the government, which regards high-quality early years education as crucial to social mobility. “We find that the childcare workforce is poorly qualified, and faces a number of recruitment problems – with many workers experiencing serious financial hardship.

Half claiming benefits

Average hourly pay for a childcare worker was revealed to be £8.20 in 2018 and almost half (44.5 per cent) were claiming state benefits or tax credits

Recruitment is also proving problematic in a sector predominantly female and ageing. The report claims that only 1.8 per cent of nursery nurses and assistants and 4 per cent of childminders are male and around 90,000 of childcare workers last year were 55 years old or above.

Best start in life

Children and Families Minister Nadhim Zahawi said:”We want every child to have the best start in life, with access to early education that sets them up to succeed later in life. The vast majority of early years providers – 95% – are rated good or outstanding by Ofsted, but there is always more to do.” “That’s why we are improving the training and professional development available to the early years workforce, including through our £20 million programme targeted at those working in more deprived areas.” “We continue to work closely with the sector to look for ways to increase diversity among early years staff, provide better career information and support, and develop new criteria for early years qualifications to improve their professional skills."

If you work part time full time or ate a sahp and have time to argue online with strangers about which one of those options you find acceptable you really need another hobby.

Not ate are

Well if it was on a benefits support page than your comments were not appropriate to the page.
I don’t think we can argue that a sahp is the acceptable if you self fund but not if you rely on benefits.
We are all just a step away from disaster.
People die, get ill etc.
The person was wrong to say the thing about attachment etc but your post was provocative and inappropriate on such a page.

Well somebody has to look after the children until they go to school don't they? Why shouldn't it be the mother? Why pay in excess of 1000pm in childcare for somebody to do what you can do yourself.

The job centre plus people don't require mums to look for work until the children are five, those are their guidelines and let's face it the DWP aren't exactly lax about making people look for work when they're seen as able.

So hypothetical situation:

A mum-to-be is working full time as as cleaner or shelf stacker as she doesn't have a career or valuable qualifications. Her partner also works full time in a low level job. Partner sods off and leaves her for somebody else when the baby is born and doesn't pay a penny in maintenance. Single mum can't return to her job after mat leave because the cost of childcare for the child would only cover childcare expenses and nothing else, let alone rent bills and food. What option is there but to "depend on the state" until the baby goes to school?

It leaves a person vulnerable to their partner or the state unless they are independently wealthy

Oh no it doesn't. Although it could if you'd made bad choices and decisions.

It doesn't show a work ethic to children. Oh yes it does, if you raise your dc properly.*

it can mean limited outcomes for children (hence pupil premium), it can mean limited experiences due to lack of income etc.

Yes, it can bud not necessarily. If you are engaged in your children's education and encourage hobbies, interests and extra curicular activities.

cosmic
Or some of us think that wages should be higher, there should be a higher minimum wage etc.
I personally think it's ridiculous that large companies can pay a minimum wage so low it leaves families needing top ups in benefits. I dont see it as a benefit to the family, I see it as a benefit to companies who can line shareholders' pockets at the expense of their workers.

Someone being of the view that people shouldn't expect or feel entitled to years out of work funded by the state doesn't automatically viewing the world from a place of privilege.

A higher min wage would just make everything (including childcare) more expensive, and parents would still be worse off than non parents. Imo it would be better to heavily subsidise childcare as an incentive to have kids and to encourage people to return to the workforce afterwards.

Someone being of the view that people shouldn't expect or feel entitled to years out of work funded by the state doesn't automatically viewing the world from a place of privilege

The “place of privilege” is essentially a failure to understand that people don’t necessarily want to be out of work funded by the state. In many cases people have no choice due to the disparity between childcare cost and salary.

Of course parents may be worse off than non parebts though, after all they chose to bring a tiny human into the world who is financially dependent on them.
I don't think parents can complain when they have more outgoings than non parents. (It's like friends who had babies straight out of college complaining and saying how lucky DH and I were to travel. It wasn't luck. We chose to focus on our careers and other things before having a family. They chose a family at 19. Neither is right or wrong).
cosmic i get that for some at the moment it's better off being out of work. I just don't think that should be the case, hence why id be in favour of changes to NMW, longer maternity/paternity leave, better flexible working opportunities, subsidised childcare etc. Work should pay and it shouldn't be the case where staying at home for 5 years is a better option, not is it something that should be expected or people should feel entitled to.

What benefits exactly are these people on OP?

You do know that benefits are supporting exploitative employers, not just 'scroungers', don't you? Tax credits enable big, very profitable corporations to pay shit wages, because the state (that is, your taxes) makes up the difference. It's not just the SAHM that gets benefits, it's the appallingly low paid childcare worker who looks after the DC of the WOHM who gets benefits. Because childcare as paid work is still undervalued, because it's something women are supposed to do for love and a sense of duty.

I’m a SAHM to twins because I was made redundant five weeks into my pregnancy, we don’t have the money for full time child care and I have to admit, are having to rely on the benefits system for now to see us through, especially seeing as my twins are under 2 and my daughter is on 24 hour oxygen supply, so I want to be the one caring for her. We have little choice for now, even though DH works full time (pay is crap he’s been searching for a better job but no luck yet). So in my case I’d say you were being unfair. My point is to not generalise a persons circumstances “walk a mile in their shoes” and all that.

If I was able to return to work I could get back into my previous career fairly easily so only fit for a minimum wage job isn't correct.
Even at pre school age my child would have needed specialist childcare of a kind which is difficult to find. At the age they are now, there is none.
I save the state at least £100000 a year in not going out to work because that is how much residential care would cost it.

@DoctorDread
What benefits exactly are these people on OP?

I can't say for every claimant but what I claim is Universal Credit. The government say:
£317 per month for an adult to live on.
£277 per month for my child.
£444 towards rent for the month.

I'm literally living in luxury with gold bath tubs in my 4 bedroom mansion, eating nothing but steak and lobster. Mind you, cleaning my Bentley's is becoming a pain, may have to get a man in to do that.

Work ethic thing makes me laugh. Most people are sahp for only a short time.
Plus ds told me the other day that my superpower was work. Dad apparently didn’t have any superpowers. He works full time. I work part time but do The housework and wraparound care.

Your bit about your career being “gone”after 5 years as a sahm is utter bollocks as myself and the majority of my friends can attest to

Keep your ridiculous personal FB arguments off Mumsnet. None of us care. And you are being deliberately goady.

Why can't petty FB arguments stay on bloody FB?! 🙄