SAHPs

[AvadaKedavra1]

So a little conversation on FB, well a debate.

Here is snippet:

Me: Those who choose to spend time as stay at home parents should be able to afford such a luxury. If you can't afford it, it's simple, go to work.

Poster: little bit ignorant.. I’m not saying their whole life I’m saying until their 5. Until they’re emotionally ready to be away from their parent

Me: Some people don't have that luxury. 5 years is a long time to be out of the workforce. Sorry but I want the best for my little girl and I want her to know when she grows up she can have a career as well as children. You won't have much luck apart from a minimum wage job if leave work for 5 years. Career gone. Poof.

Emotionally ready? I was 16 weeks when my mum went back to work full time and our relationship is great, she's my rock. I'm also a lot more realistic knowing my mum had to go out an earn a living. Christ these days it is a rare luxury for a mum to be at home for the first 5 years, it isn't financially sustainable for most. Besides, kids need to mix with other children, learn to be separated from mummy/daddy well before they go to school. My little girl will be just turning 4 when she goes to school.

You are the ignorant one if you are that blind sighted that you think it's that simple to just stay at home for 5 year when you can't afford it!

I definitely don't agree with 'let's stay at home for 5 years and rely on the benefit system to put food in my child's mouth'.

Ludicrous and entitled.

Was BU? What are your thoughts?

@KlutzyDraconequus not bullshit at all my childcare WILL be £1100 from April and I will be on £47k. I was giving a scenario of where I would be back at work paying childcare rather than being told 'you're not back yet so how do you know'.

Has anyone ever told you that you are actually quite rude.

As for my knowledge, I have learned a lot about UC over the last few months. It's not difficult to get your head round.

My landlord thread was about people needing to rent being on this new system. Nothing to do with this...

@swingofthings yep, it's definitely not about luck.

@OurLove these are about 5 years plus and staying at home for the sake of it.

Me rude?

You've called someone ignorant, mentioned someone with 12 kids needing a bigger home, referred to someone using "Benefit Britain mum", accused mums of having babies for benefits...

Yet I'm the rude one.

@KlutzyDraconequus they were fleeting comments that I have seen or heard on television. There is even a tv show called Benefits Britain, that is what I was referring to, they stereotypical type. Not an individual person.

You however, are going out of your way to make me feel crap, that in my book is rude.

I think overall it's tricky and a balancing act between child and adult. I took a year maternity and just gone back to work. I think one is very small to go to nursery, and recent studies show its distressing for them until theyre about 2. I think 18months - 2 years would be a better age to send them as they would then have a better understanding and know you're coming back. Also both mine sleep / slept terribly at nursery, have a good 2 hours at home and only manage 45 min there so by the end of the week are totally knackered and miserable.

Saying that it's so hard to have a year out the workplace and go back to it, if you had 2 years and more than one kid it would be impossible to pick up where you left off in your career.

I think one idea would be to give the dad a use it or lose it 6 months paternity after the woman's has finished (can be transferred to someone else if dad not in the picture). The dad builds up a coder relationship with the child and the child gets another 6 - 12 months with a primary caregiver. Of course we'd all have to pay higher taxes but maybe it would even out if more women felt able to go back to work.

I don't think loving off benefits to care for your kids when there young should be a choice or a right - it should be a back up for if things go wrong and you can't work, not because you don't want to

You however, are going out of your way to make me feel crap

Imagine how the woman felt after you berated her in an open page where people go for support during tough times on benefits.

Imagine how someone might feel if they have no choice but to be a SAHP due to circumstances.

Imagine how someone might feel reading your attitudes towards simply finding work when they've been trying for a long time with no luck.

It's all very easy when you're sat on a tower above the situation you're passing judgement on.
Step off your tower, come on down, live here for a while and you'll soon see that people with no clue passing judgement is not helpful, not warranted and not wanted by anyone.

@KlutzyDraconequus like she did me? It wasn't deliberately aimed at her personally either.

@AmIRightOrAMeringue these are my thoughts but you worded them much better.

@KlutzyDraconequus and my comment wasn't based on people going through hard times and needing support, it was about people CHOOSING to rely on state welfare to have the luxury of being a SAHP.

Yeah, it's such a luxury to be a single mum of 3 with no family to help

I'm incredulous that anyone actually gives a crap about this stuff anymore. Stay at home. Go to work. Whatever you have to do or want to do. Live and let live.

I don’t really understand your argument.
I am a sahm because we can not afford for me to return to work.
We are not entitled to any benefits (well I think there’s £32 we can get but that’s it apart from child maintenance or whatever it is)
We cannot AFFORD for me to work.
Can you comprehend that? I WANT to work, I loved my job, I wanted to continue there, progress and work my way up the ladder, I wanted a career. We can’t afford that. I cannot earn enough currently to pay for the childcare costs - over £1k for both children. That is more than my wages were - nearly £300 more. So I would be working to loose money.
I have had to open my own business, retrain, develop my contacts, find a market, advertise and market my products etc by myself during the day, with my baby around. Luckily it seems to have taken off really well, but if it hadn’t? We’d loose everything.
It is not a luxury. Not. A. Luxury.

It doesn't really matter does it OP..

You have no need to go onto a benefit support group, you did. You went in there for reasons all your own and expressed them.

Next week I suspect you'll pop into the Vegan Support group and let them know how nice bacon is.
Or maybe you could nip past pensioners group and just let them know that the solution to their ailments is to just 'Be young'
How about the depression support page? They could do with being told to 'cheer up' bet they never thought of that before.

Those suggestions might sound daft, but it's not that far removed from someone with a good job, a promotion and enough wages to cover child care popping along and telling people with neither to "just get a job"

@ToffeePennie Maybe calling it a luxury was wrong, what I mean is people who can't afford not to work and will quite happily choose to rely on state benefits because they WANT to stay at home. Not having the means to work isn't what I was trying to get across. I'm obviously not very good with words.

I stayed at home until my DC started school and yes I was on benefits. Judge away. Then I only worked during school hours. I enjoyed being a mum and I wanted to raise them and be there for them when they came home from school. Once they went to high school I trained for a professional career and am now a relatively high earner. They saw me study and work hard to get to where I am today and it inspired them to do the same. So for me two of the arguments, the one where you won’t have a career and the other that you have to work to be a role model, are bullshit quite frankly. You can still do both of those things after spending time as a SAHP. Both my DC are nearly thirty now. They’re happy and successful. We have a close bond. I feel happy with how I raised them. So a bit of judgement from MN about the fact I spent a bit of time on benefits is meaningless to me. People need to focus on their own families and do what’s right for them and stop judging (or comparing themselves) to others.

99% of people are state dependent to some degree. NHS, education, subsidised childcare, free school meals, pensions, tax credits etc etc. You're questioning whether it's right for someone to be more dependent on the state than you OP. Because of course your personal circumstances and choices are beyond reproach. You are the moral authority in matters of government money and it's distribution amongst the population.

Ugh. I'm bowing out now. Dont know why I allowed myself to read all this utter tripe.

Disclaimer: SAHM of 4, no tax credits, no child benefit, own our house etc etc. Except it really shouldnt matter.

Avada my husband works and I used to. However we have three children and my earnings wouldn't even cover childcare for them. It's easier and preferable for me to not work and look after the kids myself.

I could either claim state subsidised childcare and work or claim some extra help and do it myself. Either way it's the same result, money from the state on childcare.

@Asta19 @IdentifyasTired and @Seline Thank you for your responses. I am starting see I had a very blinkered view and I can now see the benefits of either side.

Also I hadn't really thought of the fact claiming for childcare costs is essentially the same thing.

I guess I was also feeling a bit poo because I feel like I have to go back to work in order to provide for my family.

Thank you for giving me a different insight and a new perspective. Exactly what I wanted from this thread.

Avada no problem. I wish more people would ask questions like this instead of sticking to their views without question.

Good point seline.
I also think one reason this thread has generally been quite good is because there's been quite a bit of discussion about wider issues and ranges of opinion with civil difference of opinion rather than a SHAP/WOHP bunfight.

@Seline thanks, I'm pleased you see that I was asking a question and trying to get different views so I could have a broader perspective. I really wasn't judging anyone and probably could have posted it better without quoting from Facebook.

@MaisyPops I'm glad you see it like that.

I had twins which made returning to work financially impossible, I would have been paying out to go to work.

You won't have much luck apart from a minimum wage job if leave work for 5 years. Career gone. Poof.

Yes, coz all women concerned about their careers just let fluff grow between their ears while they’re at home don’t they?

I’ve used the time to undertake further learning which means I can return to more qualified, into significantly more senior and better paid roles.

Avada I pose questions in similar ways, to generate interesting debate. I get told by some that I'm being argumentative when the reality is I'm just trying to fathom the thoughts behind it and either strengthen by opinion or realise that there is a better one.

@BejamNostalgia I'm glad you've used your time in this way. It wasn't about all SAHP, just ones choosing to stay at home and rely on state welfare with no earned income.

I was trying to get different perspectives about SAHP claiming benefits and can't self fund being one.

For example, I hadn't thought claiming child care costs and claiming at home is essentially the same thing or taking the time on benefits to retrain etc to give yourself better prospects.

@Saline Exactly! That's what I was doing but I'm an obnoxious judgemental argumentative so and so...

Please note, the lady I was talking to is not a lazy stay at home benefits Britain mum. I wanted opinions on our opinions
And what exactly would one of those be OP? You know most benefits do not cover the full cost of children so you still end up paying out for them? People don't get richer having more kids, they have more come in and more go out.

I COULD have afforded to go back to work at 9/12 months but then I had him, quit work and now on top of DH's wages we get family and working tax credits plus CB. Currently TTC no 2. Does that make me a lazy stay at home benefits Britain mum?

And given your salary is 47 k but you're currently in Universal Credit, surely given your views on Mums sitting about being provided for my benefits you need to get your child into childcare and get back to work. Like you said, 2 weeks minimum legally and 8 weeks notice - so that's 3 months at most with a kittle leeway. Time to get back to work OP!