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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To email school AGAIN re religious assemblies

999 replies

pineapplepenthouse · 19/01/2019 00:09

I have twins in year 4 both in different classes. I have expressed my feelings about not letting them be involved in religious assemblies or having anything to do with religion. My children are in different classes. Today for the third time my DDs has come home saying he has been included in the religious assembly.
I have strong feelings on this but other mums just say 'it's not a big deal' and 'it didn't do us any harm'.

AIBU?

OP posts:
BertrandRussell · 22/01/2019 12:35

@WhatisFreddoingnow

If you believe that it’s OK for school assemblies to be required to be “broadly Christian” then you are expecting Christianity to take precedence. I realise that many Christians don’t, and it is more than possible to be both Christian and to believe in a secular public sphere. I’m not sure where you fit into this discussion, I’m afraid. But the lack of respect for secularists and atheists has been marked.

crimsonrose19 · 22/01/2019 14:25

Perhaps look up the meaning of atheism before you post nonsense. It is not the belief that their was once absolutely nothing. Atheism has NO beliefs whatsoever.
Of course they have beliefs, they don’t believe in God but they have their beliefs about how we started out, or are you saying their minds just go blank if asked about the beginnings of the Universe.

crimsonrose19 · 22/01/2019 14:42

then you are expecting Christianity to take precedence
Just as we expect Islam to take precedence in muslim majority countries, or Hindu to take precedence in Hindu majority countries.
Why is it considered the norm for everyone else but not us.

Ta1kinPeace · 22/01/2019 14:43

Of course they have beliefs, they don’t believe in God but they have their beliefs about how we started out, or are you saying their minds just go blank if asked about the beginnings of the Universe.

I have reason to agree that the evidence for the Big Bang is likely
I have no need of any other creation story
or any other system not supported by scientific evidence

Evidence Belief

BertrandRussell · 22/01/2019 14:45

“Of course they have beliefs, they don’t believe in God but they have their beliefs about how we started out, or are you saying their minds just go blank if asked about the beginnings of the Universe.”

No. But their response would be nothing to do with their atheism, apart from God not being involved.

And yes, atheists can and do believe in many things. The only thing they have in common is a non belief in a god or gods.

BlueSlipperSocks · 22/01/2019 14:45

*The Easter service is held at the church. I've said already that I keep them at home and put them in after lunch.

Oh, and it's against school policy to hand out sweets or chocolate so no need to worry there!*

Are your children not allowed to take part in Harvest Festival, where they sing about vegetables and give out food hampers to those that need them - that school ask all children to bring in an item of food to make up hampers, as an act of kindness either?

My children have always received an Easter egg, from school, as they learn about Easter.

Your poor children having to be segregated from their peer group and fun lessons for no reason at all - except your bigoted views!

speakout · 22/01/2019 14:47

they have their beliefs about how we started out

No they don't.

Atheism has no dogma.

Atheists may accept the big bang, they may be flat earthers, they may decide that humans arrived on the cheese bus, they may think that the universe is an illusion.

You only have to reject or be unaware of claim of the existance of god.

Atheism is nothing to do with big bangs or evolution or any other idea.

Individual atheisets may accept these theories, but that's not atheism per se.

BertrandRussell · 22/01/2019 14:48

“Just as we expect Islam to take precedence in muslim majority countries, or Hindu to take precedence in Hindu majority countries.
Why is it considered the norm for everyone else but not us“

Well, I don’t think that religion has a place in public life in those countries either- I am an equal opportunities secularist!

Oh, and the UK isn’t a Christian majority country. Hasn’t been for some time.

SchadenfreudePersonified · 22/01/2019 14:57

Of course they have beliefs, they don’t believe in God but they have their beliefs

Crimsonrose is right- atheism is a faith stance like any other - they place their faith in scientific "evidence". This evidence is coming round more and more to the view that there are many things that can't be explained by scientific investigation/proof.

There are theories of parallel universes, the non-linearality of time, emphasis on non-Euclidean geometry - hundreds of theories, most probably, by respected scientists (of all faiths and none) because the more we investigate the wonder of creation and the more we find out, the more we realise that actually - we know next to nothing!

If you can maintain a non-belief in a creative Being, in spite of all of the evidence that there could be anything out there (and in here, for that matter) then you have a "faith" that there is nothing there.

Personally, I do not think that a creating God is incompatible with a "Big Bang". We can't assume that God's concept of time (a topic about which we know very little, and which is occupying many great minds) is the same as ours.

Please don't think that people who believe in God see him as an old man on a cloud - nothing could be further from the truth THAT is something most of us DON'T believe in.

pineapplepenthouse · 22/01/2019 15:00

Your poor children having to be segregated from their peer group and fun lessons for no reason at all - except your bigoted views!

Being an atheist does not equal a bigot 🙄

THEY ARE NOT EXEMPT FROM ANY LESSONS!

OP posts:
derxa · 22/01/2019 15:00

Well, I don’t think that religion has a place in public life in those countries either- I am an equal opportunities secularist! I can imagine the reaction if you tried to preach your message in a muslim majority country.

BartholinsSister · 22/01/2019 15:08

If you can maintain a non-belief in a creative Being, in spite of all of the evidence that there could be anything out there (and in here, for that matter) then you have a "faith" that there is nothing there.

Presumably if you don't believe there is a teapot orbiting the sun you do so from a faith perspective.
(am I right, Bertrand?)

crimsonrose19 · 22/01/2019 15:08

Oh, and the UK isn’t a Christian majority country. Hasn’t been for some time
That is because unlike those other countries we have the freedom of choice. Nobody HAS to be a Christian, the grievances about “Christian privilege” seem petty when you compare to the lack of freedoms in other countries.

BertrandRussell · 22/01/2019 15:28

“Well, I don’t think that religion has a place in public life in those countries either- I am an equal opportunities secularist! I can imagine the reaction if you tried to preach your message in a muslim majority country.”

Of course. I’m not really sure why that’s relevant, thought. I could say to the Christians in this country who claim persecution because, for example, some uniform regulations forbid the wearing of a visible crucifix that there are plenty of countries where things would be much worse. But I don’t. Because it’s not relevant.

BertrandRussell · 22/01/2019 15:30

“Presumably if you don't believe there is a teapot orbiting the sun you do so from a faith perspective.
(am I right, Bertrand?)”

No. I don’t believe in orbiting teapots because their presence would go against all currently available evidence. No faith needed.

SaturdayNext · 22/01/2019 15:31

even though Christmas is seen as a pagan festival, it wouldn't be celebrated if Christians hadn't come up with the story of Christmas.

So what, @BlueSlipperSocks? It doesn't mean no-one is allowed to celebrate Christmas unless they are fully paid-up churchgoing christians. Hallowe'en wouldn't be celebrated unless someone had come up with all those notions of witches, wizards, ghosts, imps, goblins etc, it doesn't mean that anyone says that only full-blown believers in witchcraft and ghosts are allowed to have a Hallowe'en party.

If OP wants to pick and choose which elements of Christianity her children are allowed to take part in then maybe home education is a better option for her children.

No, a better option would be for the school to obey the law.

It would save unnecessary disruption to the class as teacher tries to figure out whether these precious children should be present for religious teachings, or not. And then have to find somewhere to put them whilst the rest of the class is taught as per curriculum.

As has been pointed out to you previously but you keep ignoring, OP is happy for her children to be present for RE lessons, so the point doesn't arise. As for finding somewhere to put them during assemblies, the school has had no problem with this for some years, and has no problem with it in relation to OP's second child, so why would it suddenly be a problem now?

And yet all Primary schools put in a little play at Christmas entitled "The Nativity", which whether you like it or not is a Christian story about the birth of Jesus.

No, they don't.

Your poor children having to be segregated from their peer group and fun lessons for no reason at all - except your bigoted views!

As you well know, they aren't segregated from "fun lessons": they are removed from one assembly once a month run by a church minister. There is no evidence that these are "fun". And describing OP's views as bigoted really isn't showing any sort of christian tolerance on your part.

Guineapiglet345 · 22/01/2019 15:31

Are your children not allowed to take part in Harvest Festival, where they sing about vegetables and give out food hampers to those that need them - that school ask all children to bring in an item of food to make up hampers, as an act of kindness either?

I remember harvest festival as being crammed into a cold, uncomfortable church and having to sing the same bloody awful songs year after year (cauliflowers fluffy anyone?) - I don’t remember lining up the poor to watch them receive our tin of baked beans and packet of digestive biscuits - and I for one would have been glad to have been excused from sitting through the whole boring event.

It’s oossible to learn about agriculture, kindness and charity without involving religion y’know.

leaveby10 · 22/01/2019 15:32

the grievances about “Christian privilege” seem petty when you compare to the lack of freedoms in other countries. If the “Christian privilege" is so petty why fight to keep it - surely that's petty too?

Dahlietta · 22/01/2019 15:40

the same bloody awful songs year after year (cauliflowers fluffy anyone?)

What, we're laying into Cauliflowers fluffy now?! This is all getting a bit much.

BertrandRussell · 22/01/2019 15:46

I don’t think “cauliflower’s fluffy” is a Christian song, is it? Perfectly possible to celebrate “Harvest Home” without reference to God!

BlueSlipperSocks · 22/01/2019 15:48

Being an atheist does not equal a bigot

In normal circumstances I agree. Being athiest does not equal being a bigot. I've already stated on this thread that I am athiest. I would prefer my children to take part in all areas of religion. They can decide themselves whether they want to follow a religion, if they have the facts. They can't make an informed decision if they are sheltered from life!

There are many contentious issues children have to deal with as they grow to enable them to think for themselves.

You want your children to be seen as "special" because they don't have to follow the rules. You go ahead....

Isn't it strange how children of all religions in culturally diverse Britain are able to attend school assembly, except yours. Some people can't find enough to moan about! 🙄

BlueSlipperSocks · 22/01/2019 15:51

What, we're laying into Cauliflowers fluffy now?! This is all getting a bit much

I love cauliflower fluffy 😊 and the children love singing it! It's hardly anything to remove your child from on Athiest grounds is it 🙄

BertrandRussell · 22/01/2019 15:53

“You want your children to be seen as "special" because they don't have to follow the rules. You go ahead...”
Are you aware that “the rules”-aka the 1988 Education Act says clearly that parents have the right to withdraw their children from worship or RE or both? In the OP’s case it is the school which is not following the rules.

Guineapiglet345 · 22/01/2019 15:56

What, we're laying into Cauliflowers fluffy now?! This is all getting a bit much

I hate that bloody song with a vengeance, it reminds me of sitting on the floor of a cramped church for what seemed like hours!

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