To email school AGAIN re religious assemblies

[pineapplepenthouse]

I have twins in year 4 both in different classes. I have expressed my feelings about not letting them be involved in religious assemblies or having anything to do with religion. My children are in different classes. Today for the third time my DDs has come home saying he has been included in the religious assembly.
I have strong feelings on this but other mums just say 'it's not a big deal' and 'it didn't do us any harm'.

AIBU?

flumpybear we’ve tried to get people from other religions in assemblies in the past...haven’t managed. Wouldn’t have mattered if they had said ‘in our religion we believe..’ or told the story of Hanuman the monkey god as if it were fact. Unless the kids have religious influence from outside, its just taken for what it is; a song and a story.

walkingdeadfangirl we regularly do a topic in p1 called ‘Fairyland’. A dragon comes to visit the class and leaves letters for the kids to stimulate learning experiences. All the teachers play along and ‘pretend’. Even by the end of p1 you get kids saying ‘yeah, it’s just you isn’t it!?’ Kids are a lot more astute than you may think.
You might not let your kid watch scary adverts, but many by 8 years have watched horror films, played violent 18 cert games and watched you tube videos that promote consumerism / anorexia / vanity. Much more of an issue in our school. These are things supported by the kids family - much more influential....and damaging.

mathsaxiety religion can be very serious. Developing tolerance of the views of others is a great learning opportunity tho surely. Especially in an area where there aren’t really any representatives of other religions....or often people of any other race! The OP calling him ‘the loopy guitar guy’, I think, is a much more damaging influence. Imagine if her kids repeated that sort of thing. Bloody rude.

saturdaynext thinking about it he is often in the staff room beforehand. He never preaches. God is never mentioned. He brings cake!
He does, however, come in for the p7s (age 11/12) to do something like 3 x Bible study lessons at the end of the year. Some of the cockier kids take the opportunity to question the hell out of him. I’m not sure of any church goers at our school,....but hearing your classmates pick it apart must be a revelation.

“Unless the kids have religious influence from outside, its just taken for what it is; a song and a story.“

Apart from Christianity, which is considered the default faith in all State schools when it comes to collective worship.

MrsSmythFarquarson, it doesn't sound as if the person you are referencing is the one OP is talking about.

Can you link to your person’s website, Mrs S-F?

Great post mrs Smyth

Maybe because she takes religion a lot more seriously than many here

mathanxiety, that's very true.

MrsSmythFarquarson So your arguments are

1. that because some young kids can figure out you are lying to them then its ok to lie to all kids? There is a massive difference between a fun 'story' that is quickly revealed to be just a game and one that is pushed at every level and age to be ultimately true.

2. or because the harm from religious indoctrination worship is slightly less than that caused by horror films then its ok for schools to harm children?

How is religious indoctrination any worse than atheist indoctrination, which is teaching contempt for anyone who believes in a divine power?

People who say - I don't want my kids to learn about God I want them to make up their own minds - fair enough, but how can they make up their own minds if they haven't been told about faith?

There are people brought up in faith who become atheist; there are people brought up as atheists who develop belief in a power higher than themselves. But in order to develop either stance, they have to have learned about it somewhere.

SchadenfreudePersonified

Atheism has no doctrine.

We are born atheists.

THe absence of a belief in a god is the default position- not something that has to be learned.

It is often as rabid as even the most extreme religious sect. It has no doctrine in the same way that Britain has no constitution.

Love this.

“How is religious indoctrination any worse than atheist indoctrination, which is teaching contempt for anyone who believes in a divine power?”

That’s not being an atheist- it’s being a git. Which is not the sole preserve of atheists.

Over 800 comments (none that I have seen saying that children shouldn't be TAUGHT religion) and they're still not getting it that not WORSHIPPING a deity is not the same as not being taught about it. I don't need to live as a Roman to learn Latin just like I don't need to meditate to know what Buddhists believe and practice.

But @SchadenfreudePersonified being an atheist doesn't mean teaching contempt in anyone who believes in a divine powers. Well not for me it doesn't.
My children are welcome to make up their own minds based on what they learn in RE. Which they are NOT withdrawn from. Did I mention that already? 

@MrsSmythFarquarson I'm not entirely convinced we're talking about the same person. And FWIW I've only ever called him Loopy Guitar Guy on this thread, not to my children. But agree it is rude and I apologise if that offended you.

Correction: none that I have seen saying that children shouldn't be TAUGHT religionS. Plural. Not just the one that some people believe. Personally there should be a chapter or two on Zeus and his lot. Heck, Scientology too. I'd love to know what they believe.

how can they make up their own minds if they haven't been told about faith?

I dont think anyone is saying to keep religions a secret. When someone is old enough to be able to rationally study & analyse the worlds religions, free from indoctrination, then they will be able to decide for themselves if 'faith' in the supernatural holds any value.

What people object to is the indoctrination of vulnerable young children in one particular religion (chosen by accident of birth) before they have developed the mental capability to make informed rational choices.

@crimsonrose19. That's not Atheism.

BTW plenty of Christians I know would go along with most of what is described.

The source of your picture seems to be a US political organisation.

crimsonrose19 Perhaps look up the meaning of atheism before you post nonsense. It is not the belief that their was once absolutely nothing. Atheism has NO beliefs whatsoever.

What happens when it comes to Christmas

Christmas is surprisingly non religious in our school!

@newyork2017

I'm afraid the attitude that "it's not really religious" is part of the problem. This is what the Church say too. "It just teaching moral values"

Yes, using bible stories, about God and Jesus and Moses and all the other characters. It is never presented as "some people believe"

DD had minimal exposure to God, Jesus, the bible etc before she went to school. It's not a part of our lives. By the time she had been at school for a couple of years she was asking to say bedtime prayers, talking about believing in God. Telling us all about the classes she had with the local Reverend.

She's past it now, and has a more nuanced view about it all, mainly because we always balanced it with "some people believe". She enjoys the classes because she likes listening to stories. She says she just sees it as another story like the ones we read at home.

So, don't pretend it isn't a kind of indoctrination because it definitely is.

That's an empty statement - Babies also don't believe or disbelieve in gravity. Doesn't mean that gravity doesn't exist.

In fact, I have read some studies that suggest young children have a natural disposition to believing the natural world has a design and inclination towards the supernatural.

Babies don’t believe or disbelieve in fairies 🧚‍♀️ doesn’t mean they don’t exist

Hence it's an empty statement on all accounts.

Doesn't mean that gravity doesn't exist.

Gravity exists regardless of faith.

If children have an inclination to believe unbelievable things then wouldn't it be more ethical to introduce religion without worship until their critical thinking kicks in?

God isn’t an unbelievable thing. Whether you believe or not you have to accept amongst very intelligent people some have been theists and some atheists.