To email school AGAIN re religious assemblies

[pineapplepenthouse]

I have twins in year 4 both in different classes. I have expressed my feelings about not letting them be involved in religious assemblies or having anything to do with religion. My children are in different classes. Today for the third time my DDs has come home saying he has been included in the religious assembly.
I have strong feelings on this but other mums just say 'it's not a big deal' and 'it didn't do us any harm'.

AIBU?

Ok, I'll say again I DO NOT want them withdrawn from any lessons. At all. They do RE like everyone else.
I don't want them going to assemblies with the minister (about once a month) or the loopy guy with his guitar and his Jesus songs. They attend all the other assemblies. On the days the go to church (last day of each term) I keep them at home.

They don't want to go. I only withdrew them about two years ago after they came home and told me what was discussed at assembly. The guitar guy saying to my mum it was his calling to spread the word of Jesus was the final straw.

An example of a story they were told in assembly:

'Little Billy had an iPad. It was his favourite thing in the whole world. He loved it. One day he put it down and discovered Jesus and now Jesus is his new favourite thing'.

I'm sure it was mire long winded but that's the jist. I'm not exaggerating.

I have been to many church weddings and funerals. But you go to that for the couple getting married or person that has died's sake. I don't see that as 'cherry picking'.

SatuNext there’s no need to be rude. I hadn’t time to read the whole thread and I was genuinely interested. Such type of service is very unusual based on my experiences.

@rededucator, there was nothing in the least rude in my post. There is just no point in responding to an OP unless, at the very least, you update yourself on all the OP's posts. It's really easy to find them quickly.

It’s concerning how many teachers can’t search for simple data? I think that really is rather rude. Implying that teachers are not fit for purpose.

Find out the schools schedule for these assemblies and bring them to school later. The state cannot continue to bend, its more likely to buckle.

It’s not about children’s rights, is about what can be offered. 1:1 staffing for pupils isn’t affordable and isn’t practical. I strongly believe that if you feel that way, it is your responsibility to ensure your wishes are met. Keep them home, have a lie in and go when is finished.

OP you are definitely not overreacting. I haven't read the full thread although will do now, however just on the first few responses I'm shocked at people making out that you're somehow in the wrong. It is completely unacceptable that your child's teacher has seen fit to ignore your wishes, would people feel the same if you were a devout Muslim, Hindu, Jew or any other religion? I think it unlikely.
For some reason choosing to follow no religion is not given the same weight and importance to the individual as choosing to follow a different religion from the dominant one. Your not having a religion is equally important to you as following their religion is to those people who do follow one.

@Thamantha that is very interesting for you to share, I hope my child will have a similar experience when she's older, having had the chance to learn about other religions from a place of curiosity rather than being taught a religion as fact.

@mumofblue eyes, can you not see that this is just not a case of parents getting to choose which parts of the curriculum or activities their children do? It's a perfectly straightforward point: the law allows parents to withdraw their children from religious worship. No-one is suggesting for one moment that this should lead them on to choosing bits of the curriculum.

If a school finds it too difficult to obey the law, then frankly it shouldn't be open as a school.

It’s so frustrating that many on this thread ignore that this is a school in Scotland. Most children go to their catchment school and even if they didn’t then their non catchment school would still be a non denominational school.

All Scottish Schools are required to provide religious observance that ‘enhances the spiritual develop’ of the school community. The religious observance is supposed to take place with ‘appropriate frequency’. In my experience religious observance is as the OP stated part of whole school assemblies and often involves bringing in ministers from the local church.

Where I live primary school end of term services are held in the local church. The prizegiving for leaving school and moving onto secondary is held there as well. This is not stated in the school policy but it is integrated into the school.

Similar end of term activity also takes place for the senior school.

As there is no state choice for a school that delivers an education that is free from ‘religious observance’ a parent has a right to withdraw their child from this observance. If the OP had chosen a denominational school ie catholic then there is a recognition that there is an expectation that a pupil would attend religious observance and it would be much more difficult to withdraw a child.

OP YANBU although I didn’t withdraw my children there were a few occasions where I with I’d taken a stronger stand.

Perhaps your son doesn’t say anything because he wants to be included with his contemporaries. It’s not unusual for children to not want to feel different or singled out.

So you expect them to have to get a teacher to watch them whilst Everyone else is at the religious assembly. You sent them to that school and do should accept their policies

@threatmatrix, OP doesn't expect them to have to get a teacher: she expects the school to comply with the law. She's told us that what in fact happens normally is that they sit in reception and read, so no teachers are involved.

She does accept the school's policies, which are to comply with the law and honour her wish to withdraw her children, as demonstrated by the fact that there is no problem in relation to the other child. If this school had a policy whereby it did not allow children to be withdrawn, it would be breaking the law, and no parent should accept that.

“I strongly believe that if you feel that way, it is your responsibility to ensure your wishes are met”

Despite the fact that schools have a statutory obligation to let children opt out of collective worship or RE or both?

So, what do you expect your children to do when the rest of the class is participating in an assembly? Sit out in the office like an odd ball? Kids just want to me the same as everyone else. You need to step back and let your kids get involved and be the same as everyone else. Other children will remember your children as the odd ones?

Schadenfreude, OP has explained that this relates to an assembly run by a local minister which is expressly religious in character.

Jody there are other kids already sitting out, including the child in question's twin. Staffing is already in place. The teacher in question has just taken it upon themselves not to use it. Not that a great deal of supervision is needed for a small group of kids doing colouring. Teachers or TAs are probably glad for an excuse to skip assembly, they can get on with their prep work too.

Policies are readily available before anyone sends their child to a specific school.

Yes, the policy is you can withdraw your child.

It’s not about children’s rights, is about what can be offered.
Nope. Not what the law says.

1:1 staffing for pupils isn’t affordable and isn’t practical.
It isn’t 1:1 staffing. There are many number of staff who can sit with children who are withdrawn. In our school, the children not at assemblies go to a different room and sit with either the deputy head, or one of the principal teachers and do reading, colouring in, whatever. Or they go to the library. Plus, not all the teacher go to all the assemblies. We have children who can’t cope with assemblies because of autism so a SFLA sits with a group.

It’s ridiculous to suggest there is no-one available to sit with children not in the assemblies.

It’s not about children’s rights, is about what can be offered. 1:1 staffing for pupils isn’t affordable and isn’t practical. I strongly believe that if you feel that way, it is your responsibility to ensure your wishes are met. Keep them home, have a lie in and go when is finished.
Jody

1. It is not about a child's rights primarily. It is about parents' rights not to have their child exposed to practices or beliefs, taught or presented as objective truth, that conflict with theirs.

1. It is not about what can be offered or what is practical. The school is obliged to make it possible to honour the parents' wishes.

1. What you believe is irrelevant. There are laws on the books contrary to your opinions.

There are practical considerations. Schools can't afford support staff any more. There are often no spare staff members available for these things.

1. How essential is it that all teachers and TAs sit in assembly? Is the assembly really going to fall apart if one doesn't?
2. A lot of schools do what this one does, i.e. send the withdrawn children to sit in reception to read.
3. Do you not understand that this is a legal requirement? It simply isn't open to a school to decide that it's inconvenient to break the law.

Oh and more posters who've missed the fact that the child doesn't want to attend. It's almost like they're not reading he thread isn't it?

MY DD's friends are jealous that she gets to sit out!

They are very definitely not seen as oddballs! They have lots of friends and are popular in their classes.

Oops, I meant it's not open to a school to decide that it's inconvenient to obey the law.

Keep them home, have a lie in and go when is finished.

So, as a parent, the OP’s only choice is to risk having unauthorised absence on their record because one teacher is overriding her wishes and ignoring her statutory right not to have her child attend assemblies? Ours are at different times of the day too, so even if it were an option, no good for an afternoon assembly.

Please consider that someone might need to “child mind” your children. Teachers usually have to attend assemblies (the important ones) and TA’s might be getting their morning break. Maybe it is s9metimes hard to arrange a safe place for them to go. Teachers have 30 children to look after. Its not easy to cater for everyone all the time.
In any case, Your children might broaden their understanding of religion (no state school will try to convert them) which will broaden their exposure to different cultures and help them to grow up with tolerance.

kmckenna477 Sun 20-Jan-19 21:15:34

So, what do you expect your children to do when the rest of the class is participating in an assembly? Sit out in the office like an odd ball? Kids just want to me the same as everyone else. You need to step back and let your kids get involved and be the same as everyone else. Other children will remember your children as the odd ones?

It is really important for schools to establish and reinforce an anti-bullying ethos.

The idea that conformity is the most important value for a parent to espouse and promote gives strength to the proposition that bullying is acceptable.

No child should be singled out in any way because they do something their peers do not do.

rededucator, the statement that it was worrying that some teachers fail to check basic data was a simple statement of fact, and really wasn't rude.

alpa the school is required to provide supervision when a parent opts a child out of religious activities. This is the law.

Not sure why people can't understand this.