To email school AGAIN re religious assemblies

[pineapplepenthouse]

I have twins in year 4 both in different classes. I have expressed my feelings about not letting them be involved in religious assemblies or having anything to do with religion. My children are in different classes. Today for the third time my DDs has come home saying he has been included in the religious assembly.
I have strong feelings on this but other mums just say 'it's not a big deal' and 'it didn't do us any harm'.

AIBU?

Relax . They are not harming the children in any way. Sometimes in life you have to let it be. This is one of them

So you'd be happy if your kids were praying 5x a day saying allah akbhar at school? No? Why not if it's only religion? It should be fine?

Just because it's Christianity it doesn't make it OK. OP doesn't want her kids involved in Religion and I don't blame her. And it DOES effect people. It effected me, kids are very easily brainwashed at that age.

Relax . They are not harming the children in any way. Sometimes in life you have to let it be. This is one of them.

I am constantly amazed at how many people think Christianity is some harmless love thy neighbor religion. Original sin is not harmless. Hell is not harmless. Relying on a great sky fairy to solve your problems is not harmless. A religion that teaches believing in said religion absolves you of responsibility for your own actions is not harmless.

So you expect them to have to get a teacher to watch them whilst Everyone else is at the religious assembly. You sent them to that school and do should accept their policies. It teaches them that sometimes you have to do things you don’t want to. It’s a fact of life. I think your being selfish and unreasonable.

They have a legal right to this. She is not being uppity or special snowflakey.

The school is in Scotland and therefore not obliged to provide worship opportunities.

A school can provide religious education without endorsement. You do not need to participate in the religion to learn about its basic beliefs and practices. I learned the pillars of Islam in school, even though I have never used a prayer mat.

For my part, Purpleartichoke, I am always amazed at the use of the word 'Christianity', as if it is one monolithic bloc.

'Christianity' is like the term 'birds'. It covers a multitude.

What exactly is taught in RE, given the uninhibited animosity toward religion that is so often seen here on MN, and flat out ignorance of terms of reference?

You have my support OP. Also in Scotland and a bit dismayed that essentially our choices are catholic school or non denominational - which is essentially Protestant in practice. I went to non denom schools and had to pray, sing hymns etc. DD is 3 and we are going to have to deal with this soon. All of the posters saying she’s trying to prevent her kids learning about other faiths - that is not the case at all, she wants them not to be taught that Christian belief is fact.

We are actually Buddhist so are religious but don’t believe in God. I worry how confusing it will be for her having teachers whom she trusts teaching about God when at home we tell her we believe otherwise. There is no choice to send her somewhere that this is not an issue, which I believe is wrong.

OP please stand your ground. You are absolutely in the right!!

@pineapplepenthouse
I'm in my thirties now, but growing up in Scotland both myself and my brother were excluded from school assemblies because of hymn singing at these assemblies, and excluded from other religious aspects of primary school. My mum worked very hard to ensure we were not exposed to religion-as-fact. This was not always followed by the school, but was sufficiently a part of our experience that it has shaped our lives.

Contrary to what some posters seem to suggest, as a long time athiest i have a healthy interest in how all religions work. In part because I have never been able to assume any prior knowledge, e.g. god is like this, prayers are like this. This is really useful for me in working in a multi-cultural society as a clinical psychologist.

I do not know how different life would have been if i had attended more assemblies, church outings, etc. I am grateful to my mum for her effort, and the discussions we did have around religion so that i was able to make an informed choice. I hope to offer the same for my child when they arrive.

Good luck to you in continuing to do what you feel is right for your children.

Yes YABU. Clearly you have the problem, not your kids or the school. As their parent you obviously have the upper hand in indoctrinating them with whatever views you choose

That's not true. Neither of my parents are religious and I still found it difficult to be an Atheist because of all the brainwashing I'd had in School. It's much more difficult to work backwards from what you are taught as a child, that's why so few people leave religion. Kids trust things that adults tell them are the truth. So telling kids all these things about God, Jesus, Heaven and Hell as if they are the truth is going to impact them. OP is completely in the right to want to keep her kids away from all that rubbish.

Religion does massive harm. Especially Catholicism and it's branches.

Catholicism doesn't have any branches.

But I agree, OP. If you don't want your child to attend religious events, you have a right to enforce it. It's ridiculous that they are overlooking your wishes in this.

Are you sure it's a religious assembly? Most schools just have assemblies without a religious element these days, because there are so many children of non-Christian faiths, or of no faith at all.

Usually the assemblies concentrate on a message of tolerance, kindness and caring for each other, and are a vehicle for keeping the children up with news, and for giving out commendations and prizes etc. There is usually a spiritual element - eg a minute of silence - but that's as far as it goes.

I'd be very surprised if it was "religious".

Even the Open The Book project, which takes Bible Stories into schools emphasises the facts that these are STORIES, and doesn't proselytise at all.

You sent them to that school and do should accept their policies.

It doesn’t work like that here. You go to your catchment school. And all primary schools have religion in them to one extent or another.

The policy is, you have the right to ask for them not to be involved in it.

What do your children think.
Have they asked to be left out of the lesson.
What would they be be doing instead of attending the religious lesson.
Where would they be sent away to from this class.
Would they be made the recipients of remarks from the other children.
Do any other children not attend these classes.
Would they be given anything worthwhile to do instead.
Do you want them to look different from the other children.

??????????????????????

God bless you Op

What is a non denominational school?

Ok, to explain once more to people who just don’t seem to get this.

The Schooling system in Scotland was founded by the Protestant Church of Scotland. At one time there were only Kirk schools but eventually the state took over and school provision was made by each Local Authority. However, the Kirk was reluctant to hand over its schools and only did so on the proviso that School retained religious teaching. Catholics got a bit arsey about that and demanded Catholic schools be part of the state schooling system.

So, there are two types of school in the state system on Scotland. Catholic schools and “non-denominational” schools. Each School has a catchment area and you go to the school which your home is in the catchment area for. Most areas will have the choice of a catholic or ND school. Some areas may not have a Catholic school but all have a ND school. The ND schools still work within the original agreement of the Kirk that their guys can go in and spout their stuff whenever they want and schools, by law, can’t stop them. Some schools do more than others.

Latterly, the rules were amended to give parents the right to withdraw
their children from these classes, recognising we are a multi cultural society and don’t want to force those of other faiths, or none at all, to have their children involved.

Sorry, but who are you expecting to look after your child when you exclude them from these assemblies? Remove a teacher from it for one child, a support staff member? Leave them alone? It’s not practical. Policies are readily available before anyone sends their child to a specific school. If you believe so strongly that your children don’t receive this aspect of their curriculum then remove them. You can not cater for each parents whims.

It is the duty of the school to nip any remarks made by other children in the bud as this is a form of bullying, Vicky. There should be no repercussions from looking different from others.

It is not up to the children to decide based on fear of social pariah status or any other concern of theirs whether they will attend. This is up to the parent as it is considered to be a serious enough matter to be decided by adults on behalf of children.

I am really quite horrified at the idea implied in your post that conformity out of fear is OK, and the imposition of fear is something that should be tolerated.

4yr olds probably want to go along with their friends. Hardly going to be about hell and damnation at that age is it. I think if more people allowed their children to learn about all beliefs, sexual preferences etc the world would become a far more excepting place.

@Thamantha that’s really interesting to hear your experience. What did he teachers do with you during assembly and did you ever feel excluded or left out?

Sorry, but who are you expecting to look after your child when you exclude them from these assemblies? Remove a teacher from it for one child, a support staff member? Leave them alone? It’s not practical

It is the duty of the school to make this practical, because asserting that it is impractical and therefore not going to happen involves a transgression of the child's legal rights Jody

“1. In RE lessons, children learn about world faiths, and if the teacher is good, a bit about moral philosophy and politics too.

1. In collective worship, children are statutorily expected to pray to an exclusively Christian god.
2. Parents have a right, under the Education Act 1988 (I think) to withdraw their children from either or both of these things, and a school which does not facilitate that withdrawal is in breach of its statutory duties.

There are practical considerations. Schools can't afford support staff any more. There are often no spare staff members available for these things.

Schools in Scotland do have a religious element even though not identified as a particular religion except Catholic. It is not called religious instruction nowadays more like humanities. Can anyone tell me if any subject can be exempted by parent's request and if not why can religion?

Just how many teachers are needed to be in attendance at Assembly? We used to have head, deputy & heads of year at ours only.