To think it must be impossible to do a degree and have a child?

[ALittleCrisp]

DC would be around 2.5/3 years old when I would start my university degree.

But, due to the nature of the degree, childcare is then made impossible.

I don't have family locally to help out. No chance of moving back nearer to my hometown etc.

So the only thing I could do is rely on a childminder or nursery. But that doesn't work for night shift placements, and it doesn't work practically because the days and times I need the childcare in place would change weekly!

How on earth do people do this with children?

Small children

AIBU to say it's near on impossible without a great support network.

Depends on your support network.

I started my degree in 2014, took a year out in 2015, went back 2016 then failed my second year twice. Now it's 2019 and I still havent get my degree. DD is 3 years old and it may never happen as I've used up my funding years for a loan.

I was all alone with a baby when I went back for my 2nd year. Isolated and depressed, with a life changing bereavement on top.

Your husband starts work at 9am an hour away. So he drops child at 7:30 then goes to work.
If the timing doesn’t quite work he asked to change hours to 9:30 starts?

When your husband asked his employer about flexible working, to enable you to pursue your career, what did his employer say?

Midwifery is a full on degree. With lectures, placement and the non contact self study you are expected to do it is like a full time job (40 hours a week, 48 weeks a year for 3 years) it is a massive commitment.
If you can get a childminder to cover your husbands hours then it will be doable. Don't think about it as getting childcare to cover your hours. Any time you get to spend with your kids is a bonus as it is out with the 40+ hours of studying/ placement you are doing.
Next week for me is fortunately 3 mid week 12.5hour shifts, use the other week days to prep for my upcoming exam so I have the weekend with the kids. The following week i am on over the weekend so will hardly see them.

I also have a 2 hour commute to uni. My DH is the main carer, we have to be super organised and I miss my kids but I do love midwifery and opulent imagine doing anything else now.

ALittleCrisp you need a car and childcare around your DH's hours not yours.

When I was childminding I advertised 8am - 6pm but when a parent asked for 3 set days permanently 7am to 5pm instead I was happy with that, as I was up at 5am with my own DC anyway. I didn't change my advertised hours though. So you can ask for hours other than advertised. What childminder's and nurseries can't do is constantly changing hours around shifts - so you'll have to pay for hours that work around your DH's office hours, and potentially decide whether to send DC when your off or keep them home but pay to hold the place.

People manage it so it must be possible. Fuck knows I wouldn’t fancy it though!

Reckon you need a supportive partner and probably some grand parent help.

I did with 2 DC's. It was hard, but, with DH support we managed. There was a lot of early hours essay writing, and Sunday studying, but I did it.

I'm doing a distance learning masters at the moment - it's part time over two years and I fell pregnant in the first year so took a year off and am now doing it whilst looking after my 12 month old and freelancing 2-3 days a week. Hubby is also a freelancer and we are working my study around our schedules. It's still tough going though, couldn't do it full time.

I think if it's a healthcare degree then it would be difficult with placements etc with kids. I don't know if things have changed but when I did a nursing degree (didn't finish) we didn't have to work night shifts , but perhaps I was lucky??
If you don't have family around to help then it would be really tricky. Are you eligible for childcare support? Could you book dc in full time and then try and work around that?

I did a PhD with my first. It’s totally possible but you need to be able to either afford childcare and/or have lots of partner/family support.

Mine went into nursery part time from 11 months. I did my degree during the day plus worked and then also nights and weekends. My dh was able to take over in evenings and weekends and when I needed to travel for research. So yes, it is possible but only if childcare is affordable and you have lots of hands on deck for all the other hours outside of 9-5.

I will say though that it was very much worth the investment. I worked for a year after I finished and then went off on mat leave again. I’m going back next month with a very significant promotion that’s making a significant difference in our household income. It has definitely only been a positive.

OP, I’ll be honest in my experience it’s very very hard. We had a massive contraption fail and so I ended up taking a year out and find it almost undoable in terms of massive patches where I hardly see dc. Oh also finds taking time off/starting late etc very difficult. We have a nursery after a childminder stopped taking children at all and left us in the lurch but i have to rely on reluctant mil to top off childcare plus have to pay full time despite not needing it as nowhere is flexible

Night shifts are good in that you’re working when kids are asleep but I vastly underestimated the obvious fact that I had to leave much earlier in evening due to rush hour so have to leave at 5.45 pm and shift doesn’t finish until 7.45 in theory. Most days they run late though plus have to change so maybe leave at 8.15 so not home till fine 9 so not around for nursery run. Also remember that if you’re on again that night you’ll be asleep during the day. If you have to do a pick up at 3 then effectively it’s like going to bed at 9.30/10 at night but getting up at 2am.

On the plus side the uni days are 9-5 and you’ll have lots of community midwifery which is generally 9-5. At my trust though with continuity teams we’re also expected to go on call with mentors so for me that’s been days at work followed by 2 or 3 on call nights during which you are likely to be called out to births. I’ve found that when you don’t want to stay extra hours etc the mentors can be a bit disappointed and see it as a lack of commitment (although a couple have been brilliant and sent me home early when they can).

And the workload is heavy if you want to pass and really be confident on placement.

Sorry that this is negative but I find everybody at uni is super positive but in reality very inflexible. They expect you to live and breath the course.

Plus when you qualify you have to work another year as a preceptee consolidating skills and getting signed off before you are actually a fully fledged midwife in reality (and get the band 6). In most places this is also full time.

As others have said it is doable and it is hard but I would be very very sure you are at the right time because after the immense work of getting the place and the work you do on the course not finishing is a horrible prospect but one I’m seriously having to contemplate.

Wish you the best of luck xx

I had a 2 year old and a 3 month old when I started my degree (part time but was still 1.5 days a week in uni plus essays and then had a baby in one of the summer holidays so had 3 kids under 4! DH worked shifts so would do some of the childcare and we used a childminder half a day a week. I wrote my dissertation in half hour snippets while the baby napped! We have no family to help moat the time so was difficult. I remember driving the kids to sleep and then desperately revising in a carpark.
I loved my degree though and it changed . y career to the one I now love. I look back and think how the fuck did we do it!
I also worked 2 days a week for 3 of the 5 years it took.

I'm doing a PhD which needs full time work. My baby goes to nursery full time. My basic PhD stipend doesn't cover the nursery fees so I work night shifts from home at weekends (no help for childcare costs at postgrad).

But if you can get 167 a week for childcare costs that would almost cover the full time nursery fees where I am (there's also a student discount. Your kid would probably have to be in nursery full time and you just wouldn't be able to do nightshifts.

I did an AHP degree with (day's only but some starting at 8am and some finishing late and lots of changes in pattern). I started with a 4 year old starting school and a 2 year old and had another one (and a year out maternity) during the course.

Tbh nursery age was easier I booked a place 8am Mon to 6pm Fri and only sent them if I needed to eg. Hardly at in summer holidays. None of this trying to be flexible and get childcare to frequently change hours, that wouldn't have worked.

Then I did juggling act of dh doing the end of the day I couldn't, childcare swaps with friends I made (I could do holidays) holiday clubs and bizarrely a free adventure okay ground near my uni. I made it up as I went along, sounds crazy in retrospect.

I snuck out of lectures early to get back before nursery shut (prioritising placement day extra childcare).

I got a 2:1 I still work in the profession 3 years on though the state of NHS is killing me slowly. I'm now take students and we had reps from uni come in and we are expected to be far more flexible and understanding as students are paying for course now and many have part time evening jobs to get back to etc so it's bit just those with caring commitments struggling.

I’m currently in my second year Midwifery degree, I have 3 children.
Here’s my experience - only 6 weeks off a year, not the 3 months etc over the summer that other degrees get. 50% placement %50 theory, both 37.5 hours contact a week. The placement is about 40% weekends/nights.

I have been very lucky to find a childminder who takes DC from 6:30, and on nights DH sorts out pick ups and drop offs. I pay her guaranteed 3 days a week and she allows me to set my shift pattern with her. It is really really fucking hard. When DH is away with work, I hang on by the skin of my teeth.

I mean this in the nicest possible way, but Midwifery is mega competitive - if you haven’t done your access course yet you still need to apply/be invited for interview/be offered a place. Why not do the access to health or sciences or whatever and see where you stand in a year? Lots of things can change in that time.

And just be aware, regarding PP talking about part time degrees or 8 hours contact a week or whatever, health degrees are nothing like that at all, the NMC require a minimum of 37.5 hours contact a week, non negotiable.

I did the final year of a medical degree full time with a baby (who is 15 now).
It involved placements. DH was military so was away some time but he was also home for some stretches too.
I found a great childminder who was really flexible..... She want too bothered about late finishes and early starts. I think I used to pay her for 4 full days but would give her a shift pattern in advance and some weeks it was more and others much less. In the dark recesses of my mind I think she also did some overnights- however this was 15 years ago and I'm not sure she was registered for it so not sure it would happen kow. I aIso essentially begged for those placements closer to home/would fit around childcare. Clinical school were not helpful at all but I relayed on the kindness of other students to swap shifts or cover for me as needed. Whenever DH was around I was the keenest one ever -I hung around doing lots of extra stuff... But when he was away I scraped by doing the bear minimum to pass modules.
I got there in the end.
Im still working now and went on to have another 3 children ! You have to sit down with a planner and look at things hour by hour if needed. Good luck

Relayed= relied ..... Apologies-long week!

Realistically you need a childcare option where your DH can pick up and drop off. There are hardly any 9-5 jobs in midwifery, even in antenatal clinic at my last hospital they required availability from 8am to 6pm. Community you would be on-call several times a month, and in some areas would also be required to cover shifts on the birth centre. Hope you can find a way to make it work.

It sounds scarily difficult. I think there would be a lot of brown-trouser moments. A lot of them. To say nothing of the actual toughness of the course itself.

I don't know much about this route, but maybe worth going to see someone involved with the maternity support worker/midwifery apprentice route, and see what that looks like? If there were a part-time option for that? I know that nursing apprenticeships are out there too. They might expect even more night shifts. But if you could do it part-time, it might all take ten years but it might be a lot more doable. Especially if you could switch from part to full time as your children get older.

RCM page on apprenticeships

The thing with midwifery is that the degree is only the beginning of shift work hours. What's your plan for being a shift worker with a child for the next 10+ years?

I've just done a lot of digging - Even posted on my local area page for FaceBook. Two childminders have come forward to say they would be flexible for me! In the space of an hour One other says she could do it but would need an agreement of 3 full days paid weekly to secure the place. They're registered too.

Before I was only looking at Childcare.co.uk...

If these people are out there, it would be extremely promising.

Pat You are an absolute star and a curse at the same time! I'm now thinking Do I pay to go to university for 3 years or do I wait until 2020 to see if I can get on a Midwifery Apprenticeship?

I never knew such a thing existed at all, or was thought of. But the content does go on to explain midwifery applications have dropped by 30% since the removal of the Bursary.

2020 is less than a year away... DC would be a year older, ?both at preschool?

I did an AHP degree starting with a 3 year old. I was 39 when I started. I survived it, even enjoyed it, and it worked out great. But I had an unwell but very stalwart dh who was working from home, full vacations, a bursary and no shifts (very far flung placements though. In theory. In practice, although they would never admit it up front, the tutors moved heaven and earth to make it easy for me to do my placements, giving me most of them in my own city or very close by). And there were STILL some major brown-trouser moments, and I didn't do nearly as well in the degree as I hoped to do.