AIBU to think we over-pathologise very nomal human behaviour?

[Breakawaygirl]

Other threads have got me thinking about this....

We all know that diagnosis of anxiety, depression, autism and other emotional/mental health/neurological conditions are on the rise.

My question is, is it true that we are just paying more attention to conditions that were swept under the rug, or are we over-diagnosing very natural human behaviour.

I've often thought depression, anxiety and other conditions are very natural reactions to our modern world.

Many people wake up early only to be overworked, fed bad food, underpaid, come home to more work, unable to foster connections with loved ones and children, feel lonely, cut off (no community), big uncertainty in the future, pollution, overpopulation, extinction of animals, little nature in some animals and a very aggressive media that seems to have an agenda - surely to feel bad is NORMAL in these circumstances.

I often think the diagnosis is a way of saying it's the PERSON who has the problem rather than the way we conduct our society/culture as a whole.

That is not to minimise that many conditions are the result of neurology and genetics, but a huge component is nurture and lifestyle.

I've often felt that we live in human zoos and are behaviour and neurosis stems from that.

For instance exercise is a natural anti-depressant but most of us don't get enough.

Anxiety is proven to be exaggerated by social media and the idea that everyone is doing better.

Is it that people individually are sicker, or is society sicker?

Curious for people's thoughts.

You hear people say, 'I'm so up and down, I think I'm bipolar

Well yes,stupid people say stupid things, that doesn’t mean they’d get a diagnosis though.

I think I agree with you OP. That said I’m sure some very severe mental health issues are definitely inherited, it’s not just a case of environment. On my fathers family side there has been a suicide or severe mental illness (recently diagnosed as bipolar) every generation.

^ I agree, I think many mental health conditions are inherited, I am just mindful about keeping a firm distinction between what is inherited and what is situational, which I suppose is not always so easy to tell!

@Fission

You say that, but doctors can be very over-zealous to diagnose.

I've known people who have definitely played their doctors/therapists for a diagnosis to make life 'easier' (so one woman in particular has said that I work with.)

haven't RTFT but I think the over emphasis on being happy all the fucking time is so unhelpful. 'Just as long as he/she/they are happy!' is the eternal cry. As though happiness is the only acceptable state to ever be in.

I actually think if there was a third world war there is no way we'd get through it like we have before. Too many people have simply become incapable of Just Getting On With It.

A whole flipping industry has sprung up making money from it and it has infiltrated our schools. We are producing kids who are over-counselled by the time they reach 18 and they are unable to appreciate that life has its ups and downs

I also agree with this. It also makes me uneasy somehow when parents have paid for a diagnosis, of say dyslexia or ASD. I don’t know anything much about this, so it probably isn’t fair of me to feel this way, but to me it seems if you’re parting with lots of cash the assessor can’t just say ‘ there’s nothing wrong with your child’, because then the parent would have paid them for nothing? I don’t know, it just makes me uneasy.

You say that, but doctors can be very over-zealous to diagnose

I agree that this can be the case with depression and anxiety, I’m not convinced that it’s that easy to lie about having bipolar or psychosis though, nor how it would make life easier.

Modern life is unhealthy so I am not surprised people are genuinely unwell.
I think if people ate better and got exercise then some of the milder cases would become less severe.
I am surprised when people say they have low iron/b12 whatever and then go on about another illness. Get your iron and b12/whatever up with diet etc and you will feel better but don’t put it down to some mysterious unknown illness.

We are producing kids who are over-counselled by the time they reach 18 and they are unable to appreciate that life has its ups and downs

Counselling is there to help us with life's ups and downs, and teach us how to be more resilient.
A stiff upper lip and just coping leads to anxiety and depression in later life.

Narrcissists are not 'just selfish people' there is a cut off point where a behavior becomes a pathology.

haven't RTFT but I think the over emphasis on being happy all the fucking time is so unhelpful. 'Just as long as he/she/they are happy!' is the eternal cry. As though happiness is the only acceptable state to ever be in.

I actually think if there was a third world war there is no way we'd get through it like we have before. Too many people have simply become incapable of Just Getting On With It.

^^

I agree. Winston Churchill used to talk about his black dog (depression) and he led the country to victory! Quite astonishing...

This also may be an unpopular opinion and I must preface this once again by saying this is not intended at GENUINE sufferers of mental illness. My support is completely with you.

But I think our society at large has a tendency towards victimhood. Everyone wants to be a victim, whether of obesity, anxiety, 'the man' or whoever else. This platform we give victims is great for GENUINE victims (again, I stress GENUINE) but it is also taken over and exploited by attention-seekers and those who think 'I want some of that.' There will always be a bad apple to spoil the bunch I suppose but I think this attitude of victimhood really disempowers people.

It's okay to be a victim of something awful, but it is also ESSENTIAL to not be defined as a victim forever.

I suppose it's swings and roundabouts.
It's a really good thing that depression and anxiety are now better understood, have less stigma around them and that sufferers are taken seriously and not just dismissed as 'odd'.
Likewise it is really good that children on the spectrum are more likely to be diagnosed and receive support, rather than viewed as naughty, wild, or strange and left languishing at the back of the classroom.

On the other hand, normal reactions to the trials and tribulations of life are often self diagnosed as 'anxiety' etc., counsellors are springing up all over the place, many without proper qualifications but with a ready stream of people willing to pay them money for dubious advice, and a teacher friend has told me that some parents just refuse to accept that their children are perfectly normal, have no conditions or special needs, but are just not very academic but quite happy little boys and girls.

I think talking therapy is great, I have been to therapy a couple of times but what has always ultimately helped me is taking some form of action. You can only talk for so long before you talk yourself into a circle.

I think one of the great differences between how humans live and how animals live is that we force ourselves (or rather, society forces us) to tolerate situations which we find intolerable. For instance, the conditions of rush hour tube journeys would stress the hell out of many mammals and they'd become violent, aggressive and panicked, and ultimately they'd be desperate to escape, but many of us have to do it, so we find ways to switch off and zombie our way through it. Same with (most) office environments, and close living quarters.

Not a response to the OP so much, just an observation.

Yes totally agree. We go on autopilot to tolerate things we don't like. I do this myself on the tube and at work because what other option do you have? You can't shout or scream or cry at your desk, so you go quiet and withdraw. Snapping out of that when you get home is very difficult. It becomes a habit to 'cut off' because the feelings you'd feel day to day would become intolerable.

Depression has also been noted in dogs that are cooped up indoors and cats who don't get free reign.

unless youve suffered from mental health issues you dont have a clue doctors are very good at their job and dont diagnose depression willy nilly depression dosent discriminate you can be young old wealthy or poor happy unhappy it is a chemical imbalance (missing)in youre brain.

I agree. When I hear of increased funding children's mental health services due to rise in poor mental health, I think the solution must surely lie in changing the social structure we are raising children in so that they don't get poor mental health in teh first place. Kids go to nurseries where they are segregated by age from very young ages, to schools where they are segregated by age, have limited and poor opportunities for free play (which is how we have evolved to learn, explore, experiment, learn how to co-operrate and get along with other kids). Instead they have very structured live and activities,
under adult supervision, are pushed to early academic achievements (from AGE THREE IN WALES) so schools and teachers can meet targets, have homework in junior school FFS (From nursery at my kids school ffs). My kids lives are unrecognisable from mine (running around the neighbourhood for hours and whole days with my friends when I wasn't in school, doing our own thing). No wonder so many kids are miserable. They are not living the lives they were evolved to to grow into healthy happy adults.
(course there are lots of other factors too)

Similar also to zoo animals that pace and show odd behaviours.

The truth is, most people simply don't have important or purposeful jobs. We work for money to afford to live. We know our job isn't important or purposeful, so we feel bored and disengage. This is why I compare many humans to zoo animals, we can develop neurosis through having to indulge in repetitive, mind-numbing behaviours for a pay check.

Yes, we can quit a job and find a new one, but not always something that can be done quickly.

There’s a lot of talk on here about isolation from others, isolating desk jobs etc.

Aren’t the jobs where people are most at risk of mental health issues the jobs with heavy human interaction - teachers, police, health workers, check out staff?

A large part of the problem is how the public treat people in the work place trying to help them, and how standards of interaction are declining.

I have severe mental health issues and I have to say, I didn't realise how they can have such an impact on life before I started to suffer. Mine were brought on by a new medication, which didn't agree with my brain chemistry. When I stopped the meds the first time, after about a year, the mental symptoms stopped too. This time, after trying different meds and becoming even worse, stopping the meds and giving it two years, it has only slightly gone away. I presume because the brain chemistry hasn't changed enough to warrant a mental change.

When I studied psychology back in college many moons ago, we were taught that mental illness was mainly due to brain chemistry, which makes sense in my case. I have come to realise that external factors also have a massive influence.

However, and this may be controversial but I'll say it anyway, I believe that some people mistake normal feelings for mental illness, and the current culture of GPs handing out medication without further investigation and diagnoses has added to that problem.

When I see people saying that have terrible anxiety and will struggle with something like a phone call, or a job interview, or their driving test, or even going to a party where they don't know many people, to me that is normal anxiety, not mental illness anxiety. If that makes sense. Obviously there are people with genuine mental illness that struggle with these things too, but not everyone has genuine mental illness.

In my own personal experience (again, everyone's experiences are vastly different) my actual anxiety disorder is very, VERY different to what is known now as "social anxiety". It's extremely physical rather than mental. My symptoms are so physical most of the time that the mental side doesn't come into it. If I'm suffering, I couldn't even think about doing any of these things because I'm lying in bed, room spinning, heart racing, sweating, shaking, aching, trying not to pass out as the blackness around my eyes gets bigger and the feeling goes from my hands, feet and face. When that descends, there's nothing I can do. No amount of CBT has helped that. It's uncontrollable.

I really agree re how kids are raised.

I was a very happy kid. I was outside all the time, we ate meals with family and extended family, we went on holidays, I was very active and always had someone to talk to/something to do. I remember feeling very ALIVE for want of a better word.

My depression/anxiety began around puberty, most likely a mix of hormones but also the change in environment. My school was very toxic, competitive and the girls were absolutely horrible. I started to feel very low in myself and after years of this was diagnosed with GAD. I think my anxiety was a natural reaction to being in an unpleasant and unsupportive environment, especially after such a lovely and accepting childhood.

I agree quimreaper. I think modern working conditions, including commutes, are causing massive amounts of stress, unhappiness and frustration.
Days spent squashed onto public transport, stuck for hours in heavy traffic, sitting at desks under artificial light with windows that won't open, subject to inflexible rules and regulations that are processed by computer and can't make exceptions for different human beings in different circumstances are bound to make many people feel miserable and despairing.

but I think the over emphasis on being happy all the fucking time is so unhelpful. 'Just as long as he/she/they are happy!' is the eternal cry

Yes! i heard an (older) woman artist talk on the radio and she said there wasn't this emphasis on 'being happy', her parents never brought her up to be happy. She said she is so glad she was free from the burden of the expectation of happiness. She said that means it is okay to fail, because failure is interesting.

So yeah, i agree. Happiness is not a goal. Its a by product.

I don't think I agree. Being moderately ancient, I can remember kids at school who, with all the wonders of hindsight, I strongly suspect were on the autistic spectrum or had similar difficulties, but no-one so much as thought of that let alone looked for a diagnosis, let alone tried to help with their difficulties. As a result they were always the odd one out, and in some cases didn't achieve academically to anything like their true potential. With one or two matters reached the point when they got chucked out.

Had they been properly assessed and diagnosed, I suspect the story would have been very, very different and it would have had major benefits for them both at school and in terms of their adult life.

I had couples counselling in my first marriage and whilst it was useful it was also a way to blame absolutely everything on my parents (I was mid-20s). Which actually wasn't terribly constructive.

My BIL also had counselling which made this point, he had it out with his parents (I didn't with mine and advised him against it, he was in his 30s at this point) and all that happened was his mum was very distressed and his dad listened very carefully and then said 'I'm very sorry that you feel this way but what do you want me to do about it, you're 32?' (PILs weren't abusive or anything like that, they simply made some decisions that they thought right at the time, as you do, which perhaps didn't work out as well as they could have.)

He actually was pretty nasty to all the family in the wake of this counselling, very self-centred about it all.

can remember kids at school who, with all the wonders of hindsight, I strongly suspect were on the autistic spectrum or had similar difficulties,

Well yes, things like that are better. I also hope schools now don't just write off working class kids ( of which I was one) in the way they did back then.

But we had much from time to be ourselves and grow as ourselves, by having lots of time with our peers doing our own thing, than kids do now.

There’s a lot of talk on here about isolation from others, isolating desk jobs etc.

Aren’t the jobs where people are most at risk of mental health issues the jobs with heavy human interaction - teachers, police, health workers, check out staff?

A large part of the problem is how the public treat people in the work place trying to help them, and how standards of interaction are declining.

^^

Very good point, community is important but without respect, it can go the other way and become a source of stress. I am not sure if there was a golden age of respect, manners or community, but most seem to be in agreement that it is in decline.

I am part of some great groups but I have to travel far to get to them.