AIBU to think we over-pathologise very nomal human behaviour?

[Breakawaygirl]

Other threads have got me thinking about this....

We all know that diagnosis of anxiety, depression, autism and other emotional/mental health/neurological conditions are on the rise.

My question is, is it true that we are just paying more attention to conditions that were swept under the rug, or are we over-diagnosing very natural human behaviour.

I've often thought depression, anxiety and other conditions are very natural reactions to our modern world.

Many people wake up early only to be overworked, fed bad food, underpaid, come home to more work, unable to foster connections with loved ones and children, feel lonely, cut off (no community), big uncertainty in the future, pollution, overpopulation, extinction of animals, little nature in some animals and a very aggressive media that seems to have an agenda - surely to feel bad is NORMAL in these circumstances.

I often think the diagnosis is a way of saying it's the PERSON who has the problem rather than the way we conduct our society/culture as a whole.

That is not to minimise that many conditions are the result of neurology and genetics, but a huge component is nurture and lifestyle.

I've often felt that we live in human zoos and are behaviour and neurosis stems from that.

For instance exercise is a natural anti-depressant but most of us don't get enough.

Anxiety is proven to be exaggerated by social media and the idea that everyone is doing better.

Is it that people individually are sicker, or is society sicker?

Curious for people's thoughts.

Breakaway the fact that religious people can't prove, to your satisfactions that their beliefs are fact does not mean that you can just announce that 'we all know it's not true now'. That is arrogant and actually quite intolerant. You are perfectly entitled to speak for yourself, but not for everyone on this thread.

There are also people who believe the earth is flat, man didn't land on the moon and that vaccinations don't work. Religion is not proven to be true

You said religion is now known not to be true. That is a VERY different statement to 'religion is not known to be true'.

And science does not work by 'proving things to be true'. You get that right?

Tinyteatime, re paying privately for a diagnosis.

They use a 'good practice', whatever, guideline developed by Specialists in the field. It's the same one that Education Psychologists should use. Except for whatever reason, they don't. Ed Psycs seem to want to persue any other reason why the difficulties exist. My eldest DD was diagnosed by the ADHD society (1992) . The LEA accepted the diagnosis. The Foundation's Psychologists are experts in the field. They have standards to adhear to, many are published Authors in the field, involved in research etc. They have a governing body and it isn't in their interests to misdiagnose.

Do you think private Medical doctors misdiagnose because they've been paid?

The same society shapes and recommends services throughout the Country, as do the National Autistic Society.

My youngest DD was diagnosed, as an Adult with Autism, we'd always suspected it. She has LDs. But it was missed as a child. The same Psychologist that diagnosed her, via the NHS works in private practice also. Why would she be less competent if she was getting paid privately?

My youngest DD remarked to me that her Friend's Brother had dropped out of his course because of anxiety. He still works part time. She questioned if he had anxiety. My thoughts were that he probably did, because when I was his age and in previous generations he wouldn't have been expected to be in education, as said by pp.

Our lifestyles for the last three generations have done us no good.

In days gone by the children with ADHD would have probably died in accidents. The rest, high energy etc would do well, in manual labour days.

Likewise Autistic children are often well behaved. There was less expectations and work was monotonous, doing the same thing again and again. So they'd blend in.

It's well documented how other disabled people were treated. Children wouldn't be treated for chest infections and be allowed to die.

Life expectancy in Lunitic Asylums wasn't long.

For most Women sociel anxiety wouldn't be an issue. Staying at home was being a good Wife/Mother.

I think it's a mix of both, it's being recognised, because it's no longer shameful. But some of it is a reaction to modern life.

DS is brilliant. He does his absolute best to fit the mould at school (he has ASD too, so it’s a supreme effort and must be exhausting for him). I just wish that sometimes his natural energy and risk-taking was as celebrated as his ability to suppress them.

Absolutely Mrs Frumble. Sometimes a child is not a problem, but adults come to see them as a problem because of what we require of them. For example, at a school nursery where I am at the moment there is a little boy (3) who gets very interested and absorbed in complex tasks he sets himself, really perseveres and problem solves with them, doesn't like the 'sitting teaching time' and is articulate and confident about stating what he wants to do instead. At another nursery I was at, all these qualities would be seen as positive ones that were accepted or applauded by the staff. At the current nursery this little boy is scolded, shamed and is almost certainly learning he is 'bad' and' the kid who can;t listen'. It breaks my heart to see. He's a normal active kid with great qualities who is in the wrong setting for who he is, and is probably internalising negative messages about himself ( as well as not getting the learning and devleopment opportunities appropriate for him). The problem is our adult expectations based on the adult structures we have chosen to create, and not with him.

OP you are very narrow minded in the way you are dismissing religion which, to many people, is fundamental to the way they live their lives and massively important to them.

If you have come to the conclusion that 'it's not true' that's up to you. But you aren't the final voice on the matter, and you don't speak for the world at large.

Sorry for derailing but attitudes like the OP's are where prejudice and intolerance begin.

To get back on point, I think the huge growth of urbanisation is causing huge problems. Many people live on soulless estates where no one knows each other, spend huge portions of their day sitting in rush hour traffic, and have no time or opportunity to get involved with their communities. It can become isolating and lonely and exacerbate any unhappiness or difficulties in people's lives.

religion is very interesting from the point of view of mental health. In the current population I would have expected having a strong religious belief to be protective against anxiety/depression. But apparently it isn't...there isn't much difference between the rate of occurrence in the two groups.

As an atheist, it boggles my mind that knowing for certain that there is an all powerful being that loves you out there, doesn't prevent you from being anxious or depressed...but I guess they are just very different systems of the mind and not apparently linked.

so in summary...I don't think the rise in atheism and the rise in MH diagnosis are causally related....on the basis that being religious doesn't appear to impact your likelihood of mental illness.

Do not sentimentalise the past (not too distant past either). There were different pressures.

This! This backwards-looking rose tintedness is like a disease among British people, IMO. It's bloody dangerous, too! I put off going to the doctor, trying to be stoic, it's 'just' anxiety. That would have killed me. I was stunned when the GP told me just how sick I was.

People with autism in the past were all too frequently locked up in institutions and bullied and abused to death. People with dyslexia and similar conditions were labelled as dunces and their minds often wasted.

Poverty and poor nutrition in the non too distant past caused people to get rickets which caused women problems in childbirth and even in some people in their 60s and 70s now it's been part of why they end up needing painful joint replacements.

Yes, every generation has its pressures, but what's important it recognising them rather than throwing out sweeping generalisations.

In the current population I would have expected having a strong religious belief to be protective against anxiety/depression

I am sure I have read and heard the opposite (on a number of different occasions). So did quick google and came up with this
time.com/4856978/spirituality-religion-happiness/

Yes I've heard the opposite as well sitting. Apart from the comfort of believing in a higher power and having an assurance that things happen in the way they're meant to, for many people the Church also provides a community of people to connect with, events to get involved in and a real sense of belonging. Those things are missing from so many lives nowadays where people are spending longer hours in work, live their lives through social media and have no real connection with the community.

In fact, if you goggle 'are religious people happier' there are loads of articles referring to research showing that they are.

Yes ballet class, I think this is one of the reasons whey evangelicals are doing so well compared to the established churches (apart from the fact that they, y'know, evangelise and actually try to seek out new members), they also tend to have a very strong sense of community, and lots going on to involve people in and develop a sense of belonging. So if you get someone through the door they are more likely to become a part of a supportive community. So despite the fact that their teaching on social issues, such as the position of women and homosexuality, is massively at odd with what the majority of people (in this country) believe,I suspect a lot of people overlook this because of what they gain in terms of community, belonging and purpose (which is a a really deep human need).

Take a look at these movies. It will only take couple of hours and might explain some of the stuff being discussed and how to "drop out" psychologically :)

I agree that a strong sense of community seems to be a feature of those with faith. And also a sense of duty, which perhaps isn't as onerous as many of us think. IME those with strong faith are often very kind and thoughtful, patient and understanding, and yes, perhaps more content with life and what life throws at them (or perhaps more able to deal/cope with it).

the stance of evangelicals regarding women and homosexuality I think really shouldn't be considered all right because they also offer a sense of community, though.

Breakawaygirl - You're right about one thing anyway, you know fuck all about autism thats for sure. People like you really tick me off, you say "oh, I don't know enough about autism to comment" and then go right on and do that anyway. And you don't seem to even notice the irony of starting a thread about things being over diagnosed and then you armchair diagnosing your workmate. Just because you think someone is autistic doesn't make it so. So saying that person has undiagnosed autism is a bit of a leap no?
Question, if you know so little about autism why did you even include it in your first post?

As for autism not being a disability, are you fucking serious?
How can you claim to "understand autism is difficult to deal with" when you don't even know what it is?
You don't even know what autism is, do you? God I am so sick of people (and the media) going on about geniuses from the past who were probably autistic. And because some quirky genius from the past might have been autistic that means you have to love being autistic, be happy and proud of it.
And before anyone says the usual line that gets trotted out on here, that some people with so called high functioning autism are happy with it, are gifted and are able to make their special talent/interest work for them, just remember that's not true of all of them.
For every "happy, quirky, successful autistic" there'll be a depressed miserable one who spends their entire life hiding out in their bedroom.

on the subject of private diagnoses, private clinical psychologists have professional standards and it can be a good gateway to a better understanding of how to help your child and how they can help themselves. The NHS CAMHs teams are not mistake free either and certainly hard to access.

I can't understand how 'over' diagnosis can be a problem unless we're saying that psychologists need better professional standards?

@ballet

I think overpopulation is a factor.

My dad made a throwaway comment once as we were stuck in traffic.

He said, 'humans are really not that different from any other animal, we like to have our own space, our territory, our people (by which he meant the people we like and connect) and our own thing. We don't like to be crammed around with everyone else all the time.'

I think this is true. There is a medium between being isolated and cut off and being cramped up with strangers with whom you have little in common. I have started walking to work rather than taking the tube as the anxiety I felt being stuck like a sardine started to drag me down.

The community among ex-evangelicals is pretty strong as well. There is probably just about as much writing on the issues with studying and quantifying happiness as there are studies claiming this or that group is happier. One of latest I read showed that within religious areas, religious people are happier, and in nonreligious areas weren't, which could make it more being part of the mainstream vs a minority than anything to do with particular beliefs.

@jan, I am not engaging in an argument with you. I gave an opinion on a forum and gave my limited understanding. No need to get so angry.

Maybe if you were autistic and you had to listen all the time to people who know nothing about it telling you why it's not a disability then you'd be angry too.

the stance of evangelicals regarding women and homosexuality I think really shouldn't be considered all right because they also offer a sense of community, though

No, and I never said it was of course. Some of the stuff coming out, particularly on homosexuality, is genuinely upsetting and disturbing.

I do wish Woman's Hour would do a feature on why there are so many highly educated professional women (of all ages) in these churches. (though I do know there are women evangelicals leading the charge for leadership for women in the church).