DP wants a prenup!

[HappyHattie]

I’ve taken legal advice so fully understand how they do/don’t work- not looking for technical advice just opinions on whether IABU??

I am 27 DP is 32 - he earns 3x my salary. (mine is respectable and I’ve just completed a masters so will increase).

DP owned his home with about £150k of equity before we met. (He paid top end of the asking price so has not gained value and may lose a bit post Brexit)

Anyway we’re financially merged- joint accounts- I’ve never held anything back from him- including my £7k of savings when I moved in. (I know I still don’t match his income but still)

He did mention getting something in writing to protect his £150k much earlier in the relationship - fine, I was happy with that- my sibling has one as he had a large inheritance- I’ve always been independent!

But now we’re actually getting married - my £7k of savings has been swallowed up, I’m not yet named on the mortgage and we’re both wanting to start a family post wedding (2-3 kids).

The plan is I’ll drop down to PT - only today whilst talking it through with a solicitor did I realise how vulnerable I’ll be leaving myself!

I don’t want to have small children and work FT (my career is demanding and DP whilst eager to help is very much consumed by his career and often works away for short periods) I work with so many women who try to juggle this and their lives look miserable! I’d rather not have children than live like that!

So this evening I’ve been really deflated- feeling like I’m getting the shit end of the stick really - I’m not after his money (not at all) but equally I don’t really want to be drafting up a 14 page prenup which even the solicitor said ‘is likely to get quite complicated’

It also seems like it’s going to escalate from ‘protecting the £150k’ to also including inheritance, pensions, earnings...etc.

I didn’t sign up for not being a ‘team’ if I wanted to build a financial future alone - I wouldn’t be getting married.

I’m probably ABU 😞 but would appreciate some opinions!

(DP is a wonderful guy - honestly 10/10 on everything else but he had a really bad experience as a teen when he lost his parent and their very recent new spouse tried to take everything- think this has made him overly cautious)

You can have a joint mortgage and make a note of who put what in, so your 7k and his 150, or you can own in proportions. See the difference between owning in common or as joint tenants. You'll need wills as well. Bear in mind wills can be changed. I'd think again and take my £7k back

I wouldn't want a prenup and I don't think I'd marry him if he insisted, sorry OP.

Even if you let him have his £150k, like you say, should the property go down in value a lot or you be unable to move because he isn't recovering the cash he wants on it, that's a big family decision out of your hands that you will be stuck with. As you say it then gets incredibly complex. If you'll be going part time etc I think he needs to suck up no pre nup, that's a huge hit for you to take.

My DH and I are more even in that he earnt more and had more savings to put into our house (his 20k to my 5k!) but, my earning potential is much greater and I am the higher earner now (seven years after getting together, we were equal for a while). I also did a lot of the leg work on our old house which we sold and made 50k on, so that's probably more my 50k than his, but we're married and fully expect everything to be each other's.

Consult your own solicitor and put "your own"
clauses into the prenup: what happens when you have a child, what happens when the marriage breaks down because of his cheating, what happens when you go part time to raise his DC and forgo higher income whilst his career is progressing thanks to you being there in call for childcare.

To be fair, she earns a third of what he does whilst they aren't married and don't have children. She has a less successful career, financially speaking. He has a more successful career, financially speaking which she has not enabled by sacrifice. But (pre nup aside) if they have children and then split she will likely get 50%+ of the assets which she probably wouldn't have been able to accrue herself if she remained single. So, yes, she would "gain" in this position.

She is quite a few years younger though. She may have the potential to earn a similar amount if she doesn't have children. If she does have children then although the marriage assets can be divided 50/50, his future earnings will be higher if she has done the childcare so not equal.

Your reasons for marriage seem weak.

So you’ve actually got a date set for your wedding this summer? And he’s only now brought up a prenup?
How much money will you lose if you cancel the wedding?

You are not being cynical.

You have already decided not to return to London, which would be your preference and better for your career, to accommodate his wishes.

to clarify- I AM NOT a ‘luxury’ lifestyle woman. I ‘treat’ myself with a mns two dine in for £10 and buy all my clothes in the high street sales! I splurged (for my birthday) on one £50 scarf id been starring at in a shop window for almost a month!

He’s not concerned I’m going to spend frivolously!

Just because you do not spend frivolously does not mean that he doesn't see you as spending frivolously. Just read some of the threads in Relationships. Women are questioned about whether they really need new shoes, even though theirs have holes in the soles and so on.

If your £7K savings have gone on renovations to the house, then you need to get this "pre-existing claim" on the property written into any Pre Nup. You do need to get your own independent legal advice, not someone recommended by him (even if he pays for it). Get advice on what clauses you need to protect your interests especially if you take a career hit whilst raising children.
You do also need your own independent finances and savings.

Overall he is showing signs of meanness and that only gets worse as you become further in his control (after getting married, pregnancy, having children, reducing hours in your job etc.).

Please be very careful - and get independent advice.

Honestly I wouldn't of had one and didn't. Like you, I see it as a partnership.

When DH and I got together I had a house, he didn't. We then decided to buy together so I sold and he stuck in his savings. He now earns more than me and I wouldn't be able to match him on that BUT he admits I do more for our DC and in the way of housework. How do you put a price on that? It's a 24/7 unpaid job. He can't expect you to do that unsupported.

I've had two unplanned children, one when I wasn't married, one a decade later when I was (same partner). I got asked if the baby was planned quite a lot both times. I also got asked if my middle child (born within marriage, totally planned) was planned. Please don't get married because of this. My DH is a lot wealthier than I am. Except he's not because it's all ours. He earns about three times what I do. I know that's partly because I took on all the childcare responsibilities for our kids when they were little so he could focus on his career. That's as much my money as it is his. No way would any pre-nup tell me otherwise. I would not marry with a pre-nup in place.

I wouldn't be signing a pre-nup.

It just sets the tone for your entire marriage tbh.

He's saying loud and clear that he doesn't trust you.

That's no basis for a marriage OP.

DH and I have a pre nup. Our situation is that DH has a lot of family money and I essentially brought nothing financial to our relationship. 3 months before our wedding my DM died and I inherited.

In our pre nup it states that everything in my name only (my own bank account/invested money) is to stay mine and DH won't benefit from that at all.
A huge chunk of DH's money is in a family trust and this would be passed directly to our children (should we have any) and not passed to me at all.

The way our pre nup is worded, is that the money I will get increases every 5 years of marriage - this was suggested by my solicitor and I agreed. I don't believe I would be entitled to the same amount in 5 years time as I would in 25 years, as I would be at home bringing up children (in theory) while he is still "the breadwinner"

Ours also includes terms of child maintenance should we have children (my father never paid maintenance for me, so this was something I felt strongly about)

Our house is in joint names though (although DH paid for it outright) and this was his decision prior to marriage.

I would speak to a solicitor for advice. Of course a pre nup is to benefit the person who has more assets, but that does not mean you cannot make it work for you both.

Courts can and do take pre nups into account in divorce cases

No I wouldn't be happy with this. For his 'original' 150k maybe but not for anything else.

If she does have children then although the marriage assets can be divided 50/50, his future earnings will be higher if she has done the childcare so not equal

But she doesn't have to give up work / go PT if she has children. That's a lifestyle choice that has huge benefits (not working, spending more time with your children, not "being miserable" as OP puts it because she finds work hard/ stressful). If it was such an awful "sacrifice" no one would do it! So whilst she may well lose out on sharing some of her ex husbands future earnings, (after netting 50% assets,) her life will have been enriched in other ways, of her own choosing.

@honeylulu the point is that their whole family's life would be enriched and made less stressful if they weren't both working full time.

OP I’d accept ring fencing the £150k. That would be fine. Beyond that I’d be pissed off.

But I would never have kids I couldn’t afford single handedly or give up work without being personally able to afford to.

Does the proposed prenup state how you and any children will be financially protected should you split up? E.g. What provision he will make to provide a roof over the head of his own children? Presumably nothing from what you've stated. He'll keep his house, pensions, investments etc. Should you split up 10 years down the line, the reality would be you'd in theory be entitled to a proportion of his income in child maintenance, that's all. (But many ex partners don't pay or try to minimise it) You'd have to find a rented place for you and your kids, get a job lower in pay then you are in at present (because you have been out of the job market a decade and also need a convenient job that fits around child care, not a high powered one.) You've already spent your £7k nest egg/buffer. Doesn't sound tempting does it?

Your need him to see things from your point of view if this is going to work. He might say 'But that won't happen, we won't split up!' In which case, why have a prenup? I don't know what to advise other than tread carefully and don't sign any future rights away. Sounds like you have your head screwed on though, so hopefully you won't just go with the flow and leave yourself hugely vulnerable in future. Sadly, it happens to so many women - we've all seen it here on these boards or in real life.

kaytee i see your point.

Maybe I'm jealous because I don't have a "wife" to look after me! Lol.

Disclaimer = light hearted.

I have no legal knowledge.

But, can you have a pre-nup that is only up to the point at which you have children? That way, he protects his money from you running off with your secretary but, should children come along, you both then own the house as it is the children's home.

He is “consumed by his work”, refuses to move somewhere that could facilitate your career, and is happy for you to take the financial hit of going PT to have kids which could easily equal or exceed 150k.

This is a man who is totally focused on himself, his needs, at your expense. He cannot compromise. He doesn’t want to share anything about his life - money, time, location decisions etc. You will be left to bring up the kids while he focuses on his work.

That he is less shit than previous bfs, says nothing.

This is not a good marriage partner choice. What you see as “the only concern I have” is a VERY major issue - that widespread implications.

A prenup wouldn't work for me I'm afraid. It's the full partnership or nothing. And I've always been the major earner in my relationship.

Just feels like the marriage is in question from the start if you have to "protect" yourself. I'd be saying no to getting married.

You can change your name to whatever you want by deed poll.

So your savings have gone on lifestyle? Why? If you are a team and your finances are joined then savings are savings and lifestyle comes from joint funds.

Seems like he's protecting his own assets but happy to squander yours.

Also, if it's hi hoe, it'll sy his house and you'll have nothing, and have no say. As it is, you're locked into it and can't move because he'll lose money. What about your money? Oh yes! You've already lost it.

I think you need t do a LOT more talking before you marry. And fgs don't lose your income.

DP is fixed here because of his job. He could ask for a job down south but;

A- he doesn’t want to
B- he would be VERY unlikely to get one as they allocate area based on priority. So if you want a desirable area like London you have to either be from London or have children at school in the area - they don’t accept ‘my wife wants to work there’

I'm trying to think what kind of job your fiance has, that he can't apply for a job unless he's from there/has children in school there. He's clearly on a good salary. I think (a) is your answer - he doesn't want to move to London and he's fobbing you off with reasons why he wouldn't get a job there.

So let's look at what you stand to lose:

a) live in an area you don't want to live in
b) live outside London which will greatly restrict your choice of jobs
c) live in a house you haven't chosen
d) live in a house that doesn't belong to you and never will
e) you won't have the chance to buy your own place
f) you'll give up half your salary if you have children
g) if you divorce you'll be massively disadvantaged, financially
h) if you stay married, you will never live in a house you choose or in the area you choose
i) I assume that if he dies, your children will inherit his house

I would ask for some of the £7K back and I'd be on the train to London immediately.

Oh my goodness, there is no way I would marry somebody with that attitude.

If you don't go into a marriage with the belief that you will be an equal family unit and that you can trust your partner, what's the point?

If you had children with this man and split in years to come, he is just showing you that he would take you for everything he could - and give as little as he could.

Whether it's legally enforceable or not would be kind of irrelevant to me. His shitty attitude would kill my feelings for him stone cold.

I think everything you own prior to marriage remains yours. The click only starts ticking after marriage.
It does annoy me that when a woman owns a house prior to marriage MN falls over themselves telling her to protect her assets. It’s the opposite with men. As another poster put it ‘What is mine is mine, what is his is also mine’. There was a long running thread involving a higher earning woman. She could not believe how much she had to give to her ex husband. As more women become the higher earners it will be interesting to see what happens.

I am a SAHM. My DH earns a lot of money and from the outside it may look unfair. However it wasn't always like this. We bought a flat together in London when he had massive student debts and I had a higher salary, a redundancy payout and money from my parents. I essentially bought it, then he paid a measly amount towards the mortgage. That flat then went up in value by 200K and the mortgage was paid off when I rented it out when we lived overseas. I worked and earned more than him and only when his career overtook mine (because he is a man) and I had DC did I then become a non earner. If I hadn't done those things in the early years we would be living in a house that is worth half of what ours is now and have a mortgage. We work as a team. I did this to benefit us, now I do something different to benefit our family. He works FT. Our joint effort is our success.

Never give anyone something without taking something back with the other hand. Get onto your solicitor and ask them what you CAN ask for back.

Seriously, I am so sick and tired of people talking about money and how it defines someones worth. I spend a lot of time with wealthy people and I can tell you that I'd take my working class family and friends who don't define others by their money and jobs over that lot any day.