DP wants a prenup!

[HappyHattie]

I’ve taken legal advice so fully understand how they do/don’t work- not looking for technical advice just opinions on whether IABU??

I am 27 DP is 32 - he earns 3x my salary. (mine is respectable and I’ve just completed a masters so will increase).

DP owned his home with about £150k of equity before we met. (He paid top end of the asking price so has not gained value and may lose a bit post Brexit)

Anyway we’re financially merged- joint accounts- I’ve never held anything back from him- including my £7k of savings when I moved in. (I know I still don’t match his income but still)

He did mention getting something in writing to protect his £150k much earlier in the relationship - fine, I was happy with that- my sibling has one as he had a large inheritance- I’ve always been independent!

But now we’re actually getting married - my £7k of savings has been swallowed up, I’m not yet named on the mortgage and we’re both wanting to start a family post wedding (2-3 kids).

The plan is I’ll drop down to PT - only today whilst talking it through with a solicitor did I realise how vulnerable I’ll be leaving myself!

I don’t want to have small children and work FT (my career is demanding and DP whilst eager to help is very much consumed by his career and often works away for short periods) I work with so many women who try to juggle this and their lives look miserable! I’d rather not have children than live like that!

So this evening I’ve been really deflated- feeling like I’m getting the shit end of the stick really - I’m not after his money (not at all) but equally I don’t really want to be drafting up a 14 page prenup which even the solicitor said ‘is likely to get quite complicated’

It also seems like it’s going to escalate from ‘protecting the £150k’ to also including inheritance, pensions, earnings...etc.

I didn’t sign up for not being a ‘team’ if I wanted to build a financial future alone - I wouldn’t be getting married.

I’m probably ABU 😞 but would appreciate some opinions!

(DP is a wonderful guy - honestly 10/10 on everything else but he had a really bad experience as a teen when he lost his parent and their very recent new spouse tried to take everything- think this has made him overly cautious)

Once you're married the marital home becomes a joint asset no matter what he thinks

But it does matter what he thinks. I wouldn't want to marry him and be quietly smug that he was wrong. It matters more that he wants to isolate his wealth within the marriage (and what that says about his view of marriage/ this relationship) than it does about the actual legitimacy of his misunderstanding, surely?

YANBU, I'd be peed off to, it's one thing him protecting the house assets, when it's just you two but even then I'd be a bit upset, it's another thing when you have kids. If you go down the pre-nup route you need your own separate solicitor to lay out scenarios - what happens when/if you split if it's just the two of you? What do you get from the joint assets? You can put anything in, you can have him agree to pay a sum of money.
More importantly WHAT happens - when you have kids? Who will be resident parent? How will YOU provide them with a home? What if you're working part-time, earning less money, paying less into a pension? Does it change then? Will he agree that everything is equally shared? He shouldn't be adding pensions earned while married into a non-shared pot.
What if HE ends up earning less than you? What if you - come into money? Accelrate at work? He gets ill?
I've not heard of a pre-nup for such a small amount.
My DW came into our relationship with similar assets. We have no pre-nup, she sold her house and we bought one together. She earns 4, 5 x my part-time salary. She pays more for everything, I had the kids and work PT to look after them, she works FT, long hours. As the children get older I will go FT and have serious earning potential, she wants to take a step down.

I have two friends currently going through AWFUL situations because they didn't have any pre-nups and were of the "we are going to live happily ever after" camp. Both women are going to lose considerable amounts of money, the first from a large inheritance/gift from her parents, the second with a large payout from a terrible accident. Both men see fit to demanding half of each amount of money which leaves my first friend now unable to buy a property and the second unable to have further operations that she needs. I see nothing wrong with protecting any money you take into a marriage or relationship and I also think that any inheritance that comes to one or other of a couple should not become joint money if the couple split in the future.

DO not give up work while with this man. There is no reason why you both can't do 50/50% on kids responsibilities, drop offs picks ups, school runs. He needs to have the same convo with work that you do. You know you can share mat leave too??
You need to keep your career as an option.

Issue - I’ve got is DP shares a farm with 2 DB and both have partners but from words I’ve heard one wants their DP to sign a prenup and she refuses, due to she being DB family, I agree whatever either of you own, when you marry you become one, so therefore if DP dies I should then take responsibility of his share of the farm, and assets with it! Obviously some sort of an arrangement, will have to be made via solicitors! I own property and in a instance if my DP had nothing we married made a life he would get my property, and assets!

My DP step dad when DP mum died - he was given a home on the farm and it is his and not the farms so when he passes, the house will go to his children, not back to DP and his DB’s. DP DBs does all the work and has the big house, so gets all the profits, and money from farm. But All three have equal shares, and have to take time out to go everything which DP get annoyed with as it his Annual leave!

DP lives on farm, so doesn’t even own the property he lives in, so would have rent it out to live with me at my place and only get third of rent, so makes nothing from it, we not at the stage to discuss but it becoming apparent every DB will be expected to sign a prenup with their DPs

For me I won’t sign one, my DP knows that!

The more I think about this thread, the less sense it makes to me.

The Fiancé in this scenario has a house which is not worth £150k but wants a pre-nup stating that is the amount of equity that is his? (Or is it just this specific house he wants ring fenced as his and you have no claim on it?).

He wont move because of his precious house. Which straight away disadvantages your earning capacity so you cannot move to an area where your skill set is in demand and you can command a high salary (using your MA), which immediately supresses your earning capability, but not his.

You have effectively given up your entire savings of £7k some of which has gone into his house. But that £7k is not recognised anywhere in the pre-nup.

You have discussed marriage and having children, and he wants you to go part time/give up your job on having children with him, but this sacrifice is not to be recognised anywhere in the pre-nup In effect meaning once you have children you and they are solely at the financial mercy of this man. However at this point in life the pre-nup states that whatever is his is his and you cannot lay claim to anything on divorce even tho you have sacrificed your earning potential and actual earnings as he does not wish to move to an area where you could earn well prior to starting a family, and he feels you should give up your career to bring up your mutual children after you have them.

I can see what he gets form this.

OP what exactly do you get out of this relationship?

Can you protect the initial £150k but be added onto the mortgage deal so that in the long term you have a equal split of anything in excess of that? I wouldn't marry if not named on the property. Although I am aware that it effectively marries you to debt, I would still rather that. If you are not named then I would not be paying towards home improvements, boilers, electrics, gardeners etc etc.

Here's what you could do. He sells the house, and puts the equity in an account - protected by a pre-nup if you split. Regardless if you have kids or not, it's not a shared asset. If he spends some of that £150k, that's up to him it may reduce but it's his alone.
You buy a house together - which as the higher earner he will be paying more of the mortgage of, buts that's what people do. You both own the house together. Everything else is now marital assets, including your pensions because that's what happens in a marriage. You can add inheritances on either side into a pre-nup. Also as part of the pre-nup, if you have kids and the family decision is that YOU go PT he makes up the shortfall in your pension, paying in monthly. If you split BOTH pensions are taken into account so he'll get his money 'back' or at least protect his personal pension by not having to share as much of it. If you stay together till pensionable age then you both benefit from the pensions.
Or, he could go and find someone on an equal financial footing to himself if it's that important.

I don't think that it necessarily is bad that he wants a pre nup. It may just mean that he is risk adverse and plans with money carefully -head over heart so to speak.

My husband floated the idea but I put it down - 'not legally enforceable, not romantic arguments etc'. He is 100% committed to the marriage. If anything negative presenting themselves by the prenup idea, it wasn't unfaithfulness, but rather a controlling tendency, very risk adverse, worrier etc. So maybe look out for those traits!

The £150,000 will probably a drop in the ocean a few years down the line if he really is a high earner and is probably very little in comparison to what you will lose if you work part time once you have children in terms of career progression and pay. He really is just trying to have his cake and eat it.

I have a friend - young - has just had her 3rd child with her DP, who's 20 years older than her. #3 wasn't planned. They aren't married. She IS NOT on the mortgage as he had the house before they met and won't add her as she doesn't work - therefore doesn't contribute - ignoring the fact that she doesn't work because she has 3 kids and no support from him. She has no income. When she needs money he gives her his bank card, for groceries etc.
She would like to leave this 'man' but with 3 under 5's is in an awful position. IF she actually was on the house it would be different. DO NOT marry someone and live in a house he owns. Just don't.

My adult son as equity in his house which mostly came from me out of hard earned income taxed at 40%+ and I would not want it all going to a spouse if he ever marries. I would be happy for it all to go to his children but not a divorcing spouse.

All you need to do it put a charge on the property to get back what you have put in. Expecting him to draw up a prenup to protect your contribution is ridiculous.

Jezus cherist. I earn 10 times what my DH does,and own the house outright (from pre-marriage) but even I didn't suggest a pre-nup.

I would seriously reconsider marrying this "catch".

I do have sympathy with your DP wanting to protect pre-martial assets and don't really share the view that marriage has to mean a totally equitable merger of (pre-marital) finances.

That said, whilst £150k is a substantial amount he's only "protecting" in effect £75k.

Over a lifetime that's not a significant amount of money.

Arguably you also have a claim to £7k, so we are discussing a disparity of £68k if he wants to be fair.

Where this gets complex for me is that as a couple you plan to have children and this will impact your earning ability.

As such you've already started with a financial imbalance and are unlikely for the next 5 years or more to be in a situation to create savings of your own.

As such what he's arguably asking is to protect his assets whilst also benefiting from the financial sacrifices you will be expected to make to raise a family.

It just doesn't seem worth it to me.

If he had a business that would fold if "split" or we were talking about hundreds of thousands/millions I'd think differently.

The former because it would be tied to his ability to have an income and the latter because in that case there ought to be enough money to protect the majority of his assets whilst still making provision for you (which he's not in this case - it's very much a one way deal).

Personally I think you need to talk it through with him again.

As I said I don't have a problem with pre-nups per se but this doesn't resonate with me as a good idea at all given your circumstances and the money involved.

Why not agree that the house is his in pre nup just like the 7k you brought in but anything once married is joint. If he is the great guy you say he should be able to sit and say that's fair. I always get concerned when money is brought up before the wedding lol. My hubby will inherit 20k and I've already said if we split that's his as it was a gift to him but I know he would use it for the family xx

The pension part would really piss me off. If you are reducing your personal pension contributions to raise your children, he needs to make up the shortfall.

He’s looking after number one.
You’re number two, by the way (probably doesn’t need pointing out). There is no excuse (cry me a river over his past).
He’s happy to take from your very small purse and protect his much larger one for himself.

You start as you mean to go on. And I’m afraid that what you’re tasting now is the flavour of your marriage.
He doesn’t trust you. Don’t confuse this with him being sensible. He’s future-proofing his life and is not a team player, at all.

He just needs to accept that if anything did happen in future you would be entitled to an appropriate share of all the family's assets. You are taking this stance (refusing to sign prenup) to protect your own position and that of any children you may have - children who he will have responsibility for as a parent. Honestly the idea that once you have children together he would still be entitled to have back his £150k if you parted is just totally unfair.

YANBU! I think the whole thing says a huge amount about his character and attitudes towards money, and towards you. Don't get married to someone you wouldn't want as an ex husband. He's paranoid about protecting his wealth but more than happy to leave you exposed if things didn't work out and you'd had time out from your career to raise his children. Are you sure he really loves you? It sounds like money is the real love of his life.

Once you're married the marital home becomes a joint asset no matter what he thinks

But it does matter what he thinks. I wouldn't want to marry him and be quietly smug that he was wrong.

I wouldn't be quietly smug, I'd be telling him now that it doesn't make sense as it's a legal nonsense.

But it's the right to pensions and future income that would be the issue for me - I couldn't marry someone who didn't think you were joining together as a team and achieving together in the future, though I would be fine with currently owned assets being protected (though with the comments made before, the fact it is essentially only £75 and the OP has used all her savings on the house colours that a LOT! - he sounds mean. Let's just hope he is ill advised and will understand the sensible counter-arguments put).

I agree with @ sisterinsanity- seems his primary relationship is with money.

My DH was married before and he lost substantial amount of money due to divorce. I knew that, therefore, when we were buying our house together I offered to sign something to protect what he was putting as a deposit. Substantially more than me.
He firmly refused saying that it would be a really bad fundation for our marriage and how would it make me feel..He thought it would create a doubt in my mind about his commitment and how much he cared about me and how much he was invested in our life together..I found it very touching and he was probably right about creating doubt..

I'm sharing this so that you are not fooled by your DPs "traumatised by past" justifications..it's an excuse not a real reason. If I were you I would refuse to sign and reconsider this relationship. His reaction to your refusal will also show you how much he actually cares.

I do see why he would want this.
I have been with my husband for 8 years, married for 3. Before that I was in a relationship for 7 years. It didn't work out. I had something written up to say the deposit I'd put down on the house I would get back in the event that we split. We did split, and I got my deposit back, and then we split the rest of the equity 50/50. That was fair, surely?

We now live in my house, which has about £140k equity. I will at some stage inherit £500k. If we bought a house together in the future, and I put in £640k, I would want that protected.
If he had an affair and we split, why should I then give him half of that money? Why should he walk away with £320k from my investments and inheritance if he cheated on me?

We both work equal hours, I earn more but pay for more things like holidays, meals out etc, and we have one DC.

Unfortunately life isn't rosy, I've seen many people marry and divorce, and even though I love my husband dearly, I would want to protect my assets for my sake and my sons.

OP I married this man.

He isn't British and in his country- where we married - there are different types of marriage contracts you can choose. I didn't fully realise. I am only eligible for 50% of assets accrued during marriage, NOTHING from before. It sounded fair at the time. But now I've given up my career, had kids, moved countries (for his job) it is fecking unfair that he didn't give 100% of "him" to "us". I want a divorce but have to position myself better to make sure I can afford to live.

Your £7000
I'm betting that he doesn't see your £7000 as much of anything. He won't have noticed you've not got it, because to him it's a small amount. Inconsequential. Not that it's your savings, which actually, given your salary differences and age differences is more than £7000 he saved (easier to save more when you've a higher income and more time to save).

And that attitude is concerning. There's nothing you guys should be going 50-50 on with that salary differential.

If you go ahead with this, I would make very clear, pre-nup or not, that he will be responsible for 50% of childcare and child rearing. School drop-offs, pickups etc. Do NOT let his career progress at the expense of yours. There need to be practical things that are discussed, possibly with a therapist or someone who knows more about life with kids.

But given my situation, I can say that going to London now would be heartbreaking. But being trapped in 10 years with kids will be worse. It really will. Don't sacrifice your goals in life for this person who essentially views the money received for the work you do as inconsequential in comparison to his. And who views his financial security as paramount.

And I'm not saying I think he would cheat on me NOW, but no-one knows what the future will hold.
No-one marries thinking they will divorce do they, but it happens.