I want to ban a misogynist from my house.

[CoolCucumber88]

I've name changed for this as it may be outing. I have a relative by marriage who is, in my opinion, a misogynist. I don't mean he tells sexist jokes, I think he holds damaging beliefs about women as demonstrated by:

Flirting with a young woman less than half his age he has never met on Facebook, sending her unwanted messages, commenting on her photos and then writing posts about her being a "stupid bitch" when she blocked him and that he thought she was desperate.

Commenting on women's appearances in a negative way when it isn't needed, such as calling women "fat bitches" when they dare be overweight in his presence. These women haven't even spoken to him he will just point one out and tell us how "fat and ugly" she is.

Horrible treatment of his now ex wife when they were married such as lying about saying he was at work when he was really flirting with women.

He has also in the past made sexually inappropriate comments about me to my DH. DH however tolerates "Fred" for the sake of family peace and thinks I should too. His reasoning is he rarely comes over to see us and he doesn't actually mean what he says and while it's unacceptable, he's from a different time and we should just humour him and wait for him to go away.

I do not want to tolerate Fred in my own home. I do not see why I should have to be around someone who makes me feel uncomfortable. I don't want to hear his comments or humour his opinions.

DH agrees with me they're unacceptable but thinks me saying he can never visit is too far and it's unfair as he hasn't said anyone from my family can't come over. Which is true but no one in my family acts like this and if they did I'd be saying the same thing. I've offered to see Fred with DH in a restaurant, coffee shop or other open space but DH doesn't see why I should be able to veto someone from the house.

I'm not in the wrong here to not want this gross behaviour in my home am I?

He also makes a comment every time we see him that's derogatory to DH, the same comment. He always says he's surprised DH is married as he always thought DH was gay as he's a quiet bloke, and that DH was an "ugly child and a loser" and he never thought he'd get a girl to stay five minutes let alone long enough to marry and have children with him.

DH says it's just a joke and he doesn't mean it, but I don't see the funny side. It's emotional abuse, he is trying to make my DH feel humiliated in front of me and the DC in order to make himself feel powerful. I see right through it and it irritates me DH does t.

Google FOG (fear, obligation, guilt) - it's very common in dysfunctional child/parent relationships.

A couple of thoughts which I hope you don't mind me sharing -

Your husband, like many people including myself, has been brought up in a toxic environment. He is living under feelings of F.O.G. (fear, obligation & guilt) and finds it very hard to call to account those responsible for his childhood (and continuing) emotional neglect. It's actually really difficult for him to understand how unacceptable Fred's behaviour is, and has been.

If your husband feels so strongly about having Fred around, and you want to give it a go, decorate like it's Christmas. Except, instead of Christmas decorations, put up messages about your values - equality, anti-sexism, anti-racism etc. The internet is full of positive messages, you could print them out and stick them everywhere.

You could also give your husband a "bingo card", fill it in with the various sentiments Fred has expressed in the past. If Fred hits say 5 of them, you invent some reason where the visit has to end right now.

As someone said earlier, I think you have a DH problem. A book you could try reading is "Toxic In Laws" by Susan Forward. In my case I had to buy "Toxic Parents" which involved taking a deep breath, it's hard to use the word Toxic in relation to close family. But often it's apt.

I don't understand why your DC would think Fred's views are acceptable when he expresses them in the house unless neither of you pull him up on them? Without hearing exactly what he is saying, it does seem a little drastic to ban him from the house entirely, although clearly I'm in the minority for thinking that. Surely if anything it would be positive for your DC to see someone like this challenged on their views? Unfortunately they are probably going to encounter a Fred at some point in their lives so it's up to you to model how to deal with that.

I have a relative by marriage who is an out and out racist. Whenever he visits (like Fred, not often), I pull him up on each and every slur, casual or not so casual, that he makes. "Sorry, what did you say?" "Can you explain that, I don't quite understand?" "So what you are saying is .... , is that right?" "Why do you think that? Is it because ..." and on and on. But actually it's been a long time since I've needed to given he clearly doesn't want to be put through the wringer.

Fred sounds like an absolute prick.

Your last update is just awful. I know it's easy to say when you're not in the situation but having been in a similar circumstance with a previous DPs close family member saying awful things to them under the guise of a joke, I did speak up. My then DP had gotten used to tolerating it and in all honesty I think he wanted to pretend it was a joke rather than face up to the reality that the family member was a total twunt who was deliberately trying to humiliate him.

I told my DP that I couldn't live with myself if I allowed my partner to spoken to like an didn't question it. The family member was shocked I called them out and seemed quite embarrassed. It's a bit like the emperors new clothes, when you clearly state what is actually happening it leaves them nowhere to hide. They never spoke to DP like that again and it gave DP a boost to realise someone found it unacceptable.

I would tell DH I'm prepared to compromise, Fred can come to your home but you will reserve the right to respond however you see fit to anything he may say whilst under your roof. If Fred is a pleasant functioning member of society the his visits will be nice, if he isn't then so be it.

I like the bingo card and anti discrimination decoration ideas.

I think he has definitely grown up in a toxic environment. I don't want to say anything obviously recognisable but Fred used to leave DH alone as a child and not take him to school/take him in late because he was too busy with his own life (usually attempting to cheat on MIL). DH jokes about this and how he always got detentions for absence but again I don't find it funny and find it incredibly sad he was treated like this. I also find myself sometimes feeling angry that other family members didn't intervene and "rescue" child DH from this.

I wish I could help DH see that he doesn't need Fred and his approval. Reading this back, if DH has grown to accept abuse from this man it's no surprise he doesn't see why I am so offended by his comments.

Limpshade DH usually just changes the subject because whenever he does bring it up, Fred calls him names and says he's stupid. Fred is a total arse and I haven't always responded because I don't want to make my DH more uncomfortable by starting an argument when I know he hates that but I similarly just can't accept his horrid behaviour.

There's also an aspect, when someone is in your house, of treating them like a guest. Fetching drinks, cooking nice food, getting them what they want. I'm absolutely not going to do that for a misogynist. No way I'm skivvying for someone who thinks that a woman's place.

I threatened to ban BIL for racist comments. He hates me but he keeps his mouth shut now.

MrsTerryPratcett I feel like this too. Why should I "serve" someone who doesn't respect me

Look, you can’t stop him seeing Fred, but you don’t have to see him and neither do you need to leave your children in the house with him.

Either go out ten minutes before he arrives, or flounce out with the kids as soon as he opens his mouth, whichever works best for you. But you don’t have to sit there with a fake smile plastered on while Fred abuses your DH, makes obscene comments about you and demonstrates to your daughter that women are pieces of meat.

he is trying to make my DH feel humiliated in front of me and the DC in order to make himself feel powerful.

I can only agree with you that it's wholly inappropriate for your DC to listen to that level of verbal abuse - they know fine well that it isn't humorous. Your DH at his very heart knows that he wouldn't want his own DC to speak to others in that way, far less a family member so he should not tolerate it being spoken in front of them.

Ban him. If for no other reason than to strike a blow for every person he's been vile to in the past.
A small dose of unprovoked animosity in his direction is the least you can do.

Been arguing with DH all night about this. He won't accept my compromises as they are on "my terms"

Well from now on I'm flat out banning him, I was more than reasonable, I've had enough. Fred can get tae fuck.

YANBU! Let friend hang out with your DH outside away from home. I would reiterate that there is no way in hell that I would put up with that kind of bullshit around my DC. This is non negotiable.

And, the whole thing about being from a different "era" is an absolute fallacy. There are plenty of men in their 70's, 80's and beyond, from all walks of life and various ethnicities that don't act like prize assholes.

Just be careful OP. Your DH has a mind full of complicated thoughts about his father. It’s not just a simple issue for him.

The worst thing you can do is allow Fred to get between you and your DH.

Maybe have a read of some of the threads about abusive parents to find a way to support your DH through the nightmare that is an abusive father.

This is much bigger than the fact Fred is a prick, it really really is.

Good on you. And if he turns up challenge every twattish statement he says. Guarantee DH will start favouring taking Fred to the pub after that

OP I think if challenging him ends in name calling then you are within your rights to ban him - it's your house and I wouldn't tolerate that either. That's why I'd prefer my Fred to visit us if we simply have to see him - if we're under his roof we can't really pull him up on it as he's hosting us. But insult me under my own roof - get to fuck.

Sounds like your husband is part of the problem.

I think a fair bit of the stuff you've listed here is stuff that you can overlook in short bursts (not that you should have to), but the sexually inappropriate comments about you are definitely crossing a line. That's not something that you can be expected to laugh off or ignore, and I'm really surprised that your hubby tolerates that. If the idea of banning him from the house causes too much "hassle for the family" then perhaps you could tell your hubby that if Fred does say anything sexually inappropriate about you that hubby needs to stand up for you and tell him straight that he's being disgusting and he won't tolerate someone speaking to you/about you like that in your home. Then one of two things will probably happen - Fred will apologise and shut up (we pray for this unlikely possibility lol), or Fred will say your hubby is overeacting and kick up a fuss. If this happens then hubby is quite within his rights to tell Fred to fuck off and not come back to his house. That way you've not "caused" any fuss, it's all been caused by Fred and he was given the opportunity to apologise and refused, so hopefully the rest of the family will see it that way too.

If your DH won't agree to ban him from your home, then the only thing to do is to make sure that you're out when he visits, it's not something you should have to do though, why should you be forced out of your own home because of a visitor's behaviour.
Alternatively, tell your DH that he can meet him elsewhere if Fred isn't prepared to keep his views to himself on his visits.
If a man had made sexual remarks about me, my husband would have punched his teeth down his throat, regardless of who the man is making them.

I’m going to go against the grain here and say that yabu. I understand that your fil is piece of work with fucked up views on women but he’s hardly a regular visitor and he’s your dh’s dad. By banning him from your house you’re essentially dictating the relationship between your dh and his dad to suit yourself. It’s your dh’s home too and he wants him there so I think you pretty much have to suck it up.

I’d be far more likely to go down the make-myself-scarce route if I really couldn’t stand his visits although in all honesty I’d have no problem chiding him for saying stupid shit about women in my presence.

I mean really - take responsibility for your dislike of this awful man and remove yourself if you really can’t stand him. Don’t force your dh to join in with you by banning his dad from your home. You don’t have any time for the man but your dh has a depth of feeling for his father whether you like that or not. Don’t seek to dictate like this - it makes YOU seem every bit as overbearing and unreasonable as you’re claiming your fil is.

YANBU

OK. Your updates change things. This is your FIL who was and still is abusive to your DH. I'm not surprised he won't stand up to him about this given that he won't even stand up for himself Please get the "Toxic Parents" and "Toxic in-laws" books by Susan Forward. Your DH really needs to read Toxic Parents.

I'll get those books. DH really will not accept that his dad is abusive. He says he understands that I think he's abusive but that I just don't know him well enough. He even said that some of it is his fault because as a teenager he called Fred names and therefore his constant putdowns are acceptable.

He doesn't want to meet in a restaurant or coffee shop however as he admits Fred is embarrassing and doesn't want him making a scene in public. I'd rather that than feel uncomfortable in my own home personally.

I've told him that if Fred turns up I'm grabbing the kids and going out for a while, as while I can't force DH to not take his crap I can ensure me and the kids don't have to listen to it. He's a bit annoyed that I won't let Fred see the kids but he did say he understands why.

I don't know how to support him when he won't openly acknowledge Fred's behaviour was and is abusive. He twists it, so if I say what about the times Fred left you alone as a kid and he'll say but I had fun and it didn't do me any harm. If I say what about Fred calling you names it's but I called him names it's just a joke. If I say what about Freds attitude to women I get told he's old and it's cultural (my dad is older and child of 1st gen immigrants; while no one would ever call my dad modern he isnt a bigot) trying to change (how)?

Not sure how to approach this when he is in denial.