AIBU to say that some people just cannot work full time or even at all?

[thebeesknees123]

This does seem to be an age old discussion among parents, particularly among women with young children.

I can think of various reasons why people can't work:

Just had a baby and breastfeeding
Mental or physical health conditions
Caring responsibilities - e.g. elderly relative
The money does not cover childcare/commute expenses

Personally, I do work (30 hours per week) but I am lucky in that it is shifts around the school so I don't have childcare costs. I would never slate someone who couldn't find something suitable for their needs or pressure them to take something that is going to cause them undue stress because they are put in a position where they are forced to be unreliable, which, frankly, I would be if I were forced to work 9 to 5.

That's a good point about many people not paying tax. Income tax starts when your income is £11,850. That's about 30 hours a week on NMW for an over 25, and you could be working full time and not paying it if you're younger. NI is lower but even so, it's also very easily possible for someone who's working to be costing more than they're paying into the pot, if they need and claim childcare subsidies because of it. We need to get past the simplistic work=contributing to the Exchequer POV. Not necessarily so!

@Brakebackcyclebot

If money was immaterial, you could have all of the benefits without any of the draws.

Your third point about supporting yourself seems confused as it's entirely down to salary.

I work for many reasons. I enjoy it and I'm well paid.

If I won the Euro Millions, I wouldn't work as I do now although I would still need to find ways to stimulate my brain etc. I would look at working in my role for a day a week with extended travelling breaks. I'd be chauffer-driven to work.

If you don't work because it only covers the cost of childcare then please consider that you are a) not paying any taxes and b) not giving employment to someone working in childcare

You might not pay PAYE but you certainly still pay taxes.

CosmicComet Are you really saying that women who go out to work don't love their kids?

No. I’m saying if you have a choice between working for no money or being with your kids, you’ll choose your kids. Nobody works for free no matter how much they claim to love their job.

@snurguzelly
But not everybody can support themselves can they? That's what this thread is about.

Does that mean if someone cannot work they have no worth? So if I'm unemployed should I just commit suicide and leave my kids without a mother? No, I have a worth to them and to society even I am not working.

Actually, I have always disliked the Tory party insistence that they have helped the poor by raising the level at which you pay income tax. I don't believe for a second that it was altruism that led to that, I believe it's so that they can chip away at people's perception of the low paid. You can work many hours a week on minimum wage and not pay income tax, so then people can point the finger and say 'look at these lazy non contributors'. It's stripping away people's dignity under the guise of benevolence.

Well obviously but it is possible to paid and enjoy it at the same time!!

Of course it is. But if you’re NOT being paid (ie if childcare eats up your salary) then it’s irrelevant if you enjoy your job. You won’t realistically work for nothing.

@CosmicComet

"Nobody works for free no matter how much they claim to love their job."

That's a strawman as you're assuming that money is the only attraction. My salary made no difference to our lifestyle (lucky inheritance and DH has a good job) in the long or short term.

People do work for free. I know lots of people (mostly ladies) who work hard for charitable causes without gaining a penny. There's social recognition etc but that's immaterial (pun intended).

I love my children (adults now) but wouldn't have wanted to spend all waking hours with them.

Of course it is. But if you’re NOT being paid (ie if childcare eats up your salary) then it’s irrelevant if you enjoy your job. You won’t realistically work for nothing

Important to remember though that childcare isn't just your responsibility ( unless you are a single parent) Childcare costs should be treated as any other joint bill.

Likewise, if ypur husband buggers off, he is still responsible for paying maintenance

YABU.
I worked full time while breastfeeding and my mother was terminally ill.
The law allows breastfeeding mothers to express while at work. Yet I simply used my lunch hour to breastfeed my baby. I also breastfed in the hospice while caring for my mother and giving her her medication. That required more imagination as the law doesn’t cover it, so I just did both simultaneously. So yes, of course you can work. As I’m a single mum the necessary childcare was crippingly expensive so I sold my house, my car, quit the gym. Everything. For over a year I was statutorily homeless. And I still worked full time.

Yanbu. But many are conditioned (forced) to accept the status quo.

I'm a single parent of three autistic dc. I have worked in the past, but with the sleepless nights, having to take time out to collect my eldest from school when he was too anxious and simply couldn't cope, I was too exhausted to keep it up. I miss it, but I'm unreliable, can't always concentrate and it wasn't fair on my colleagues or my children. Two of my dc will require life long care, so that is my life buttoned up really. I love them dearly, but sometimes I have a good sob.

Wooly. I did, too, while my dad was terminally ill, albeit fewer hours. I also worked while my mum was v ill. I was v lucky to have a supportive employer. I also breastfed 2 infants whole working -admittedly v part time.

However, my point is I found most of this v stressful but if someone said, I couldn't ork because of x y z, I agree with them as I wouldn't want people to have the stress I did

As a parent it is difficult to find things to fit in around childcare. I am a SAHM through (I do the odd bit of work as when needed with a couple of rentals) because when I did look into a bit of PT work I couldn't find anything to guarantee that I would be around both at pick up and drop off and evenings and weekends and I didn't want someone else to be looking after the kids. There are not enough job options taking family time into account.

if your husband buggers off and decides he doesnt want to be employed then you wont get any maintenance

I fucking would. Lazy bastards. Since when did thin-skinned cucks get to avoid "stress"? In case anxiety is triggered? Jesus wept.

Wow, you sound lovely.

I'll deliver the kids to him 3x a week then to see how it is to feed them on nothing

I used to be able to cope with caring for family/friends and working FT when I was younger. But, a couple of major accidents and now a chronic condition that needs to be managed later, plus a diminishing number of people who are able to share the care (age, their own health, or they're elsewhere) means that I'd desperately like to reduce the number of hours involved (either way).

>I work because:

- it stimulates my brain in a way that spending time with my kids doesn't
- it gives me an identity outside being a mother
- I would go stir crazy if all I did was look after my kids

None of these require paid employment. You could get the same from lots of things.

Thanks thebeesknees Looking back I realise how stressful- and tiring- it was. I was exhausted. But at the time I was just getting on with it.

It does seem like a bit of a dirty secret to state that you would rather not work if you didn't have to. But yes 100% if I won the lottery tomorrow I would never work again. I can find plenty of things to fill my time and keep my brain active. I only work because I'm lucky enough to have a reasonably well paid job (and low outgoings) so I'm able to afford to travel, spend money on hobbies and fun stuff. If I only earned enough to pay for my living expenses then I would become severely depressed pretty quickly. Obviously I know that's the reality for many people. So I do consider myself extremely lucky. But honestly, if someone has the choice to stay at home on pip, esa etc or go and work for minimum wage in a crappy job and be no better off financially, well I don't actually blame them for just not working. What would they gain from working? A certain section of society wouldn't look down on them? So what? A certain group of people posting here have a career, not just a job. For them I understand the value of working. But others, who might make an extra £30 a week for working 40 hours? I understand why they just don't bother. I wouldn't either in all honesty.

I fucking would. Lazy bastards. Since when did thin-skinned cucks get to avoid "stress"? In case anxiety is triggered? Jesus wept.

What's a cuck? Are you a uckold or Quean

The answer to your lovely, well put question is When they are ill and unable to hold down a job. You seem to think this is a choice.
Would you expect somebody with a broken leg to still be playing football?

It's all very well if your dh earns lots not to be a wage slave and work for big corporations but if you have a low earning dp or are a single mum....needs must.

I care for my disabled pensioner DH who is 23 years my senior.

Other women in my position are now to be forced onto Universal Credit. There were changes to Pension Credit sneaked out on Monday night before the Brexit vote.

A lot of younger partners are their spouses carer and are now going to face in work conditionality. This will disproportionately affect women as they are the younger partner in most cases.