to not want to buy a house until engaged?

[longtimelurker231]

Long time lurker, first time poster.

I am in my mid-twenties and my partner is in his late twenties. We currently own a flat together which we have sold and cannot complete until we buy a house. We've had a few problems, no abuse or cheating but have really strained our relationship recently with some issues and are working on it. They aren't huge and I think it's from different levels of maturity, i.e. I am more mature.

Anyway, I am wanting to get married to him. We always discussed that we would and I thought it would have happened last year but he wasn't ready. We've just found a house we both love and can afford and want to buy. We have been together almost 4 years now.

However, I am starting to wonder whether the marriage is actually going to happen. He wants us to buy the house together but I see it as a bigger commitment now as if he doesn't propose in the next few years I'd really consider leaving as it would seem like he was never going to do it - when you know you know right? and buying a house would be a huge financial commitment I only want to do if we are planning on it being forever.

So now I've said I don't want to buy until we are engaged but it comes across as an ultimatum as he doesn't want to rent after we sell and also wants this house we both love, whilst i'm of the same opinion, i'd still rather miss out because i'll end up financially tied and resentful, considering there's about 10k of stamp duty too it's an expensive decision.

One minute he says it's the cost of the ring but I've said I don't want an expensive one and we can look at the weekend, then he isn't happy with the ultimatum. The thing is though, that I genuinely feel this way and one of us needs to compromise.

He said 'what if I guarantee it happens within a year?' I said no to this as he could easily back out and has said it would be within the year last time which never happened.

Do you have any advice? WWYD?
I know he does want to be with me and does love me, he seems scared if I'm honest.

Well said Emma

Marriage is a massive step & people of both sexes go into it without realising the full consequences I think

@Jessie so what I mean by this is that usually when you sell it is to buy as was our situation and to look for a new property we had to sell STC. We bought it to make enough for a deposit for a proper house. Additionally, where we are currently makes it really hard for me to get to work without relying on my partner. The new house puts me next to the train station so easy for me to get to work but same area so just as easy for DP. This is why we chose to sell now as I needed more flexibility as I can work very late (midnight/early hours #finance)

Marriage is important to me. So it will be a dealbreaker I think which seems so sad as we've achieved so much.

But what I do need to add is when we started dating, if a year, two, or three in he'd have proposed I'd have said no (too young/early in career/still doing exams) despite knowing I wanted to marry him in the future.

Also about the higher earner thing, yes I will earn more but we are a team pushing each other on to do better. I don't think me earning more means we shouldn't get married, I would continue to earn more after a divorce, but I spend most my money on holidays and food (I like nice food).

We would only ever be somewhere where we contribute equally to the mortgage and household. Same would go for the new house.

Marriage is easier to leave than a shared property. Your home is almost always your biggest asset and your biggest liability.

I would not buy another home together until you are actually married or the wedding is imminent.

Honestly, if you have been together for years and he doesn’t want to get married, you really need to consider whether this is the right relationship. I was you many years ago. Getting married was the logical next step after years of co-habitation, but he was reluctant. I wish I had paid more attention to that. We did marry and it was a disaster. I’m actually the one who left him, but really, I was just the one who finally worked up the courage to leave.

I ended up meeting a great guy who couldn’t wait to marry me. We have our little spats as every couple does, but being together and knowing we want to be together forever has always been easy and obvious. We have a wonderful life and family and I couldn’t be happier.

If you earn more won't you contribute more to the household? We always organised it so we contributed a percentage based on how much we earnt. So if one person earnt twice as much then they put in twice as much. If you marry won't it all become family money anyway?

for me the financial difference would be, if I wanted to go on a more extravagant holiday that he couldn't afford, I'd pay a bit more to cover some of his costs. Apart from that, no. We have no children, our outgoings are fine and unlikely to change despite a rise in salary. I would just spend the excess on more expensive clothes as I'm very tight with money at the mo (working class background etc taught me to be like this)

Yet another one! There is a thread like this on here every week or more often. You are incompatible. Engagement means nothing. I'm in my late 40s and have friends who have been engaged multiple times and never been married in their lives.

You need to move on. You have issues aside from the fact that he doesn't want to marry you. It's never just that, you see an OP likes yours and then all this other stuff out that speaks to how incompatible you are.

You're not on the same page. Sell up and move on or waste your time getting further embroiled and tied financially to him and then you'll be back here when you're in your mid-30s about how he doesn't want kids, either.

I've seen this happen so many times I can't count, but every woman who stays winds up wasting her time, and sadly, I have several who ran out of time to have kids. And guess what? They 'split up' because they were never married, then he found someone else younger within months and winds up married and with kids acting like the World's Greatest Family Man.

Why on Earth would you even want to marry a person who had to be coerced into it with ultimatums, too? How desperate and pitiful.

'This isn't working for me. We will sell and split up.' You have no ties to this person once you flog the flat. You're young enough to find someone who's on the same page.

If I had stayed with my ex when he said he 'wasn't ready' I'd never have had 3 kids. As it was he didn't marry until he was 35 and didn't have kids until he was 40. It would have been too late for me.

Being engaged provides no more security or certainty than what you have now though.

Sorry I personally see it as pointless as you're either married or you're not. I know many couples who have been 'engaged' forever and they're clearly not getting married anytime soon. It's really odd (to me anyway).

I wouldn't buy a house with him, he'll probably carry on making excuses/stringing you along. He doesn't sound very committed.

I would sell the flat and make your decisions unencumbered by home ownership etc. So many people blindly follow the steps and find themselves separating in their late 30s when children are involved. Lots of them admit that they should never really have married at all but people can easily get carried in away in the various life stages.

If you want children don't let him stand around like an indecisive lemon forever while your fertile years pass you by either. Fair enough if you don't want kids, but just a thought.

Why would you want to marry someone that you have relationship troubles with. I think it would be sensible to either give up on the relationship or wait a few years. You've only been together 4 years which isn't that long.

Why is marriage such a big deal? If you love each other and are right for each other it's perfectly OK nowadays to just live together. Would you really throw away a happy relationship over it? If so I feel the relationship isn't working and you may aswell finish it now, take your money and go separate ways

In my experience, when a proper, grown-up guy really, really loves a woman and is committed to her, he doesn't have a 'fear of marriage'. He's eagerly looking forward to their shared future together.

My sense is that he's trying to communicate to you without spelling it out. Please don't settle, OP. And absolutely don't buy a house with him.

If a man came on here and said he was earning more money and keeping most of it for himself for expensive clothes (or cars etc) wouldn't he be critised? Wouldn't people point out that it's family money? I find it strange that if you want to get married that you are not willing to share your wealth with your spouse. Marriage is a partnership, a team supporting each other. It doesn't sound like he is scrounging off you, just sounds like you have the more lucrative career.

I wouldn't, it's called having your cake and eating it. He doesn't want the commitment of marriage - that is unlikely to change now. Just make sure you have protected yourself financially

Btw, you don't have wait until he proposes. It's the 21st century you know, not the 1950s!

Barbarian
"Really Emma? So you shpuldnt look for commitment if it might end up costing you money? Do you give this advise to men also?"

That's not what I said at all! Please don't put words into my mouth.

From a purely financial point of view, marriage benefits the lower earner (or the spouse with fewer assets). We would hope that the higher earner (or the spouse with more assets) would want to protect the other.

There are many things to consider when getting married. Including whether your partner is fully fully committed to you and willing to offer emotional, financial and practical support.

If this guy isn't fully committed, why should the OP enter into a contract that will require her to share her assets with him if they divorce?

And yes, I'd say the same to a man if his female partner was dragging her feet about engagement.

But this is a gendered issue. It's often women who are more keen on marriage than men, and that's partly because of social conditioning / expectations / pressure, but it's also because in general men tend to be higher earners with more assets. Hence pointing out that a woman who's actually the higher earner may do well to think carefully before pressuring a man into a marriage that he doesn't seem as keen on.

I think it is make or break time. Commit or finish. You are right not to waste money on a house when he "doesn't think it much of a commitment."

So you can complete the sale without buying a house, and move into (separate) rented accommodation closer to work. Sounds like the ideal moment to make the break.

OP, I've known about 3 friends in this situation and none of them ended happily. Buying a house is a huge financial boost for him with none of the emotional commitment and security of marriage.

Of the friends who bought but weren't married (and wanted to be) 2 were broken up with a few years later, left desperately sad with boyfriends walking away very happily and easily due to the money they made selling the properties. The other friend got pregnant accidentally (on purpose) and the boyfriend has now completely changed personality for the worse. They are both clearly VERY resentful of each other, I doubt they will be together in a few years.

If you value marriage don't go into this. It will only increase the pressure on yourself, you are investing in a relationship that isn't actually fulfilling your needs.

A) why did you sell if you wouldn't buy a house unless engaged? That seems manipulative.
B) almost 4 years means 3 years, and 3 years isn't very long. In your mid-twenties you have the luxury of time, so why rush?

Sorry OP I haven’t RTFT so forgive me if this has been said - but I was in SUCH a similar situation with my ex! Only for me I said I wouldn’t ‘move in’ until we were engaged - we were spending 5 nights per week together for over a year! I was 24 he was 29.

Anyway - he hesitantly agreed, we got engaged and I moved in. He didn’t stop having ‘concerns’ or ‘doubts’ and 6 months before the wedding he got so jittery I knew he didn’t want to marry me - so I left!

If he’s not sold on it now- forcing the ring onto your finger IS NOT going to make it magically awesome!

@MrDarcyWillBeMine I actually think it's obvious that that would happen.
Sorry, but not living together before marriage is a fools bet and being together for a year is barely time to know anyone.

Take the house out of the equation here for now. The real question you need to be considering is whether or not you truly love this man and believe he truly loves you and do you have similar outlooks on what you both want for your future together? Once you've both decided on that, then you need to decide where you're going to live together and if you buy/rent etc. It seems like you're going about this decision the wrong way round.

I'm sorry, but I've seen similar situations before and it's never ended up well. And I can see it about to happen with a good friend too and I wish she'd see her BF for the time waster he really is.

He's immature you say. Why would you want to marry an immature man?

You have effectively asked him to marry you and he said no. You refuse to accept this no and give a list of reasons why you can ignore what he said.

You are mid-twenties, together four years and it has been rocky. You are awfully keen to get married. Is he your first long term relationship? Have you got a schedule in mind of when you'll be married, have children etc?

Give yourself a little shake and start looking at what is actually true not what you want to be true.

In what way is he immature?

@Black

🤔 we’d been together much longer than 1 year but we’d been spending 5 nights a week minimum together for a year ish!

Pretty sure we ‘knew’ each other far better than lots who get married/have kids