to not want to buy a house until engaged?

[longtimelurker231]

Long time lurker, first time poster.

I am in my mid-twenties and my partner is in his late twenties. We currently own a flat together which we have sold and cannot complete until we buy a house. We've had a few problems, no abuse or cheating but have really strained our relationship recently with some issues and are working on it. They aren't huge and I think it's from different levels of maturity, i.e. I am more mature.

Anyway, I am wanting to get married to him. We always discussed that we would and I thought it would have happened last year but he wasn't ready. We've just found a house we both love and can afford and want to buy. We have been together almost 4 years now.

However, I am starting to wonder whether the marriage is actually going to happen. He wants us to buy the house together but I see it as a bigger commitment now as if he doesn't propose in the next few years I'd really consider leaving as it would seem like he was never going to do it - when you know you know right? and buying a house would be a huge financial commitment I only want to do if we are planning on it being forever.

So now I've said I don't want to buy until we are engaged but it comes across as an ultimatum as he doesn't want to rent after we sell and also wants this house we both love, whilst i'm of the same opinion, i'd still rather miss out because i'll end up financially tied and resentful, considering there's about 10k of stamp duty too it's an expensive decision.

One minute he says it's the cost of the ring but I've said I don't want an expensive one and we can look at the weekend, then he isn't happy with the ultimatum. The thing is though, that I genuinely feel this way and one of us needs to compromise.

He said 'what if I guarantee it happens within a year?' I said no to this as he could easily back out and has said it would be within the year last time which never happened.

Do you have any advice? WWYD?
I know he does want to be with me and does love me, he seems scared if I'm honest.

He doesn't want to marry you. Problems caused by his immaturity? Read the relationships board - some men still want the "young free and single" lifestyle even when middle aged with kids. It's left to the woman to pick up the pieces. You can see this starting to happen - he is dictating that he won't compromise (e.g. by renting) but he also won't get engaged. After four years together I don't think you're unreasonable to want the security of marriage. He has form for saying it will happen within the next year and then not carrying through. Don't trust him.

Sell the flat and split up. You have plenty of time to find a man who does want to marry you.

He doesn't want to marry you. Don't buy a house together.

"If he doesn't propose in the next few years..." Have more self-respect than this! You've been together 4 years. He's had plenty of time to decide if he wants to spend the rest of his life with you, and he has decided that no, he doesn't. So cut your losses now, get rid of such a wishy-washy man, take your equity from the flat and put it on a flat of your own.

Just dont buy the house. He is not in the same place as you. Either keep the flat and review in a year, or sell the flat and go your separate ways.

(Actually if you are the stronger earner - marriage doesnt necessarily work in your best interests, especially with kids, unless you plan to be a SAHM. If he is a SAHD then if you split you could end up paying him maintennance. )

Sell your flat and split the money. You can always find another house if you and he work things out.
I don't think anyone should get engaged because they feel pressured. You would never know if he really wants to marry you or felt pushed into it. He isn't ready. You deserve to marry someone who knows he wants to be with you and has no doubts.
My feeling is that if he wanted to marry you, he'd know that by now. A bit of space and taking the pressure off might be a good thing. Also you don't want to waste years on him if he is never going to commit.

So now I've said I don't want to buy until we are engaged

This is NOT an ultimatum. You're just bring honest and stating your position. You're 100% right to do so. I did the same, but my DH was keen to get married so it wasn't an issue (although he probably would've waited a little bit longer if I hadn't said this.) I can really see you regretting it if you buy a house with this guy. He'll probably push you into having children without marriage and after a few years will admit that he never wanted to get married and never will, and by then you've added children to the mix and will need to consider their needs as well as your own. I've seen this a thousand times, both on Mumsnet and in real life.

Being engaged doesn't mean anything. I have a friend who has been engaged for 10 years and counting. Do you really want to force him into this?

I think his fear of marriage right now is a mixture of general nerves, and our relationship issues which were based around my anxiety and depression struggles. He struggled coping with someone so anxious and at times depressed. I think it's entirely fair because he did support me but also didn't understand. (FWIW I am doing better now, therapy helped and also medicated)

The only way I can describe him is that his parents always thought he was a high functioning autistic spectrum child, they took him to therapists when younger but didn't want to 'label him' (their words). He is a mathematician now (I don't know if relevant but you can kind of picture the character) so he doesn't really understand emotions and I think he has a lot of hidden emotions he doesn't understand how to express.

So often in these boards we get the op saying oh well he said when we do x or y or z then we will get married and they go along with it until 10 years and 2 kids later the DP says actually I don't want to get married and the OP posts here and everyone tells her well you should have sorted this all out before you jump into houses/children etc.

I think you are smart OP - if marriage is a deal breaker for you better to know now rather than commit yourself.

Is it a deal breaker for you?

At the moment we earn the same but in 8 months time I will be on double his salary, so I would always protect myself. We are both happy keeping our financials separate apart from joint household expenditure and this is also how we would pay for children.

This is naive. It is not possible to keep separate finances in the UK if married. I agree that in these circumstances you would be better off unmarried.

If you've had a few issues and still working on them engagement and marriage will not sort them.

Sounds me that you're ready for the 'next stage' in life, but he isn't or isn't the right person. Don't fall into the trap of marrying/settling for Mr Right-now rather than Mr Right because it works for your life plan.

I'd rent for six months. Work on any issues then reevaluate the relationship and think about buying. People can be sniffy about 'wasting' money renting but it also gives you massive flexibility. As you say £10,000 in stamp duty could be wasted if you have to sell up after a split.

It sounds like he is having second thoughts. I would have an open conversation with him about what you both want / need from your relationship. If those don't align, take it from there.

DH and I married after 2 yrs but friend of ours married after 8 and 20+ years respectively. They are no less in love or committed than DH and I.

During the time when they were not married, they were "less committed". That's literally what marriage is. A contract of commitment. If you don't have it, you are less committed. Like it or not.

You are attempting to blackmail him. For god's sake get some self respect.

No she bloody isn’t, and you clearly don’t know what you’re talking about.

Blackmail means demanding payment or some other benefit in return for not revealing compromising or damaging info about a person. It’s a criminal offence. And it’s a far cry from saying ‘I don’t want to commit to a house purchase with you if we aren’t going to get married’.

I’m always astonished by the absolute bullshit some people will assert on the internet.

OP my DH has aspergers and struggles with emotions. We got engaged after three years, married at four and a half years. I don't think his character has much to do with it, it sounds like he isn't interested in it.

I wouldn't want to buy a house before being engaged purely because I did want a nice ring and houses eat money. DH knew early on that marriage was important to me and he said it was to him too.

Like someone else has said everything is entwined when you marry, you can't keep finances separate if you split it will all be viewed as one pot initially.

Financially, I am not that bothered about us splitting if we divorced. I think we both are honest characters and I know things change when it isn't amicable, but I don't think either of us would go after each other's things mainly because we don't have much. Maybe 20 years down the line but that would be unavoidable.

I don't understand it, we had a proper discussion about it but he just seemed scared and 'not ready' despite saying he does want to be with me forever. He also said he doesn't think buying a house is that big of a commitment which I find silly.

If a man wants to marry you...he does. Dh mentioned marriage 3 months in proposed a year after we met. This is humiliating for you. Bin him and meet someone who is desperate to marry you not some lump you have to drag to the alter.

As PP’s have pointed out, engagement is no gurantee you will actually get married so unsure why you’re pushing it so much. I know many couples who were either engaged for years and never got married or are still engaged now after years... I call them faux engagements, engaged for the sake of saying you’re engaged. This could easily happen to you.

Engagement has no legal status. Marriage does, even if its 20 minutes in a registry office.

I certainly wouldn't buy a house with someone without that legal contract - you are stepping into a minefield.

Forget the engagement - either he wants to marry you or he doesn't.

It depends on why he says he doesn't want to marry you. DP and I have been together 13 years. We have 3 kids. This year we bought our first joint property. We have always been a committed couple - we would never have had kids otherwise. This year we are going to finally get wed. There were lots of reasons OH didn't want the wedding before. But we are now in a position to do it. Yet I never doubted his commitment to me and our family. All his other actions made me feel very secure. (Although I was engaged many years ago - and lots of what you are saying rings true to that relationship - which wasn't right and we did split up.)

He gave you his answer. He is scared and not ready.

You are not on the same page, OP. I don't think pushing the topic any further will help. It doesn't sound like he will want to commit anytime soon.

He said 'what if I guarantee it happens within a year?' I said no to this as he could easily back out and has said it would be within the year last time which never happened.

He is "future faking" OP, he is making promises for your future that he has no real intention to carry out. He may go along and vaguely agree to the engagement but then back out, he may do this for an easy life hoping that it can be placed on the back burner, "oh we cannot afford an engagement ring now, so much to buy and do for the new house, it is not the right time as it is busy at work and that new promotion may come up, not this year love family crisis and this may add extra stress to Auntie Beryl and her cat was so ill you would not want to upset her now would you" there will always be some reason why not this year/decade/millennium.

Sit back and think firmly on this, this man is prepared to tie you legally and financially to him to get this house but will not offer the commitment that marriage will bring including legal security.

Read up on future fakers and see if it makes sense for you
www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/understanding-why-someone-fakes-a-future-with-you/

Didn’t we have this thread last week? Name change OP?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3473968-to-consider-leaving-a-relationship-because-I-want-to-be-engaged

OP why can't you complete until you buy a house as you wrote in your first post? You can surely just take the money, rent and be cash-buyers six months down the line? Or buy the house you both love immediately and wait to see what happens? making sure of course that you're protected against any future split. From how you describe your partner he finds the emotional side hard but has supported you through depression but you're both still young. And you're just about to take a huge leap in salary and seniority. Why are you so keen for an engagement which doesn't always lead to marriage or for marriage itself?

He's not that interested in marrying you
I think you should walk away

@toothlessrag omg this post is so similar. Although not had any of the fake proposals etc so no not me. Although might have to DM this person...

It's hard because I REALLY do not want to walk away. I see him as my husband. I get the fear of marriage, I genuinely do because that was me a year ago quite honestly. His parents marriage leaves a lot to be desired which is where I think it comes from