to not want to buy a house until engaged?

[longtimelurker231]

Long time lurker, first time poster.

I am in my mid-twenties and my partner is in his late twenties. We currently own a flat together which we have sold and cannot complete until we buy a house. We've had a few problems, no abuse or cheating but have really strained our relationship recently with some issues and are working on it. They aren't huge and I think it's from different levels of maturity, i.e. I am more mature.

Anyway, I am wanting to get married to him. We always discussed that we would and I thought it would have happened last year but he wasn't ready. We've just found a house we both love and can afford and want to buy. We have been together almost 4 years now.

However, I am starting to wonder whether the marriage is actually going to happen. He wants us to buy the house together but I see it as a bigger commitment now as if he doesn't propose in the next few years I'd really consider leaving as it would seem like he was never going to do it - when you know you know right? and buying a house would be a huge financial commitment I only want to do if we are planning on it being forever.

So now I've said I don't want to buy until we are engaged but it comes across as an ultimatum as he doesn't want to rent after we sell and also wants this house we both love, whilst i'm of the same opinion, i'd still rather miss out because i'll end up financially tied and resentful, considering there's about 10k of stamp duty too it's an expensive decision.

One minute he says it's the cost of the ring but I've said I don't want an expensive one and we can look at the weekend, then he isn't happy with the ultimatum. The thing is though, that I genuinely feel this way and one of us needs to compromise.

He said 'what if I guarantee it happens within a year?' I said no to this as he could easily back out and has said it would be within the year last time which never happened.

Do you have any advice? WWYD?
I know he does want to be with me and does love me, he seems scared if I'm honest.

Ok, even if you’re not the same poster my advice doesn’t really change - and I agree with crosstalk.

People always say marriage / babies won’t fix a relationship, and they’re right.
You say you’ve had some relationship problems recently, yet you still want your boyfriend to propose - right now. What if he’s unsure given the recent problems? I wouldn’t blame him particularly. Engagement means nothing anyway. If you’ve talked about marriage and he says he’s committed, why will a ring change that?

Sorry posted too soon.

He would feel backed into it, you’d know he’d only proposed because he felt forced to. That’s not exactly the start of a happy marriage...

I’m not saying you should go ahead and buy this house though. Either remain in your flat and stop the sale, or rent.

Don't get married until you've sorted out the problems in the relationship; a wedding isn't a cure for your anxiety or his resentment of it.

You can buy the house though and in fact, if you're earning more and presumably putting more into the mortgage, you're better off unmarried and making sure the paperwork reflects your respective financial contributions.

@longtimelurker231 what happens if he really doesn't want to get married but still wants to be with you?

A good friend of mine was in this situation, pushed to get engaged, after years they finally got engaged and then nothing happened for many more years because they were supposedly saving up for the wedding. Then he said why waste it on a wedding, let's buy a flat - and she went along with it hoping it would show him that being in a partnership with her wasn't so bad. After buying a flat, her spending months doing it up, years go by, it finally dawned on her that he had proposed all those years ago just to shut her up - it was no pathway to marriage at all. They split and now have to sell the flat to get their money out and she is facing dating again in her mid 30s. I don't even know if she's got her money back yet. She's so sweet and hopeful about the future but I know she feels sad that he has stolen years of her life where she thought they were building towards marriage and kids and he was just trying to keep her quiet and stop going on about it.

Ok, less ‘emotionally comitted’ to their relationships then, robotic

I think you are being very sensible here.

It's entirely sensible to think about where you want to be and be upfront with your partner about it. In return, he should be upfront with you so that if your views don't match, you can make an informed decision. Women don't have endless years to faff about if you are hoping to have children.
I did exactly the same thing before I bought a house with my then-boyfriend, I wanted to know that it was a serious commitment with a view to marrying and we got engaged when we bought the house and married shortly afterwards.

I feel bad for you. You're contorting yourself into knots to excuse it all. "We've had some issues" "He may be on the spectrum but has never actually been diagnosed with anything" "His parents marriage is crap" "He thinks I'm being pushy"

These are all excuses that you are making for him. And they are excuses designed to deflect your mind from the fact after 4 years and a flat, he still doesn't want to marry you.

He talks a good game. But talk is nothing.

And you talk a good game too "I see him as my husband", but of course he's not, he doesn't want to be.

Marriage was important to me. I did not even contemplate buying a house until after marriage - I'd seen so many of my friends fall into that situation - do you know how hard it is to save up for anything other than a registry office job if you're paying a hefty mortgage? Putting in a new kitchen? A new boiler?

It doesn't happen. It's kicked down the road again and again.

So if marriage is important to you too, hold out for it. Maybe it won't be with this guy, maybe you're destined to be married to someone else. In which case, you'd better find out before signing deeds.

Why do you want to get married? If you're going to be much the higher earner it's a bad idea.

The reason everyone is told to get married here is because it protects the lower earner. It's a zero-sum deal, what lower-earner gains the higher-earner loses.

I know there are non-financial reasons to get married, but the financial benefit to the lower-earner is probably the only benefit that will be enforced by a court. Whatever other benefits people think they will get from marrying, a judge isn't going to make them happen. If you're the higher earner, there's nothing in it for you. (Assuming the lower-earner gives you a choice.)

I would not make the huge financial commitment of buying a house while your relationship is on rocky ground. If it goes pear shaped it will be easier to break up if renting.

What you are thinking is a lack of maturity might just actually be that this is who he is, or that the relationship has run its course or you are just not compatible.

Don't pressure him. When he's ready he'll propose. you already owned a flat together and this is already a big commitment so i wouldn't be worried personally

do you know how hard it is to save up for anything other than a registry office job if you're paying a hefty mortgage? Putting in a new kitchen? A new boiler?

Plenty of us managed.
You could flip that round and say why the hell would you spend money on a wedding that you could otherwise put into a house deposit.

He is not your H. He has made it clear that he doesn’t want to be your H in the near future.

Engagement isn’t meaningful unless you have a wedding date booked in the reasonably near future.

You’re the higher earner, so marriage may not benefit you financially. You mention “paying for DC”, but were you married money would be legally both of yours, so you probably couldn’t continue with your current financial management model in the event of a break up.

Because once a wedding happens, it's done for good. And it sorts a lot out legally so it has value other than romance.

But once a house is bought, the expense is only just beginning. It is a constant and very costly expense.

"Don't pressure him"

If stating what she wants out of life is such a terrible pressure to bear then this relationship is doomed - unless of course the OP just conveniently forgets her own needs and wants.

Don't buy a house with him OP, split up or live separately for a while. Give yourself plenty of space to decide what you want to do next.

Hmmm.

The issues you've mentioned are not minor IMO.

Emotional connection is so important in a relationship. It's really tough when there is a bit imbalance and one person is not able to meet the emotional needs of the other. Obviously we are all responsible for our OWN emotional needs, and we can get support from other sources (counsellors and other professionals, friends and family). But if you're struggling with depression and anxiety and it creates problems in your relationship because your partner just doesn't get it, that's going to drive a wedge between you emotionally that won't go away. You will probably feel lonely and resentful.

If you want to spend the rest of your life with him, there will be other challenges (children maybe) and you might have other periods of depression.

If he was 100% committed to you, it might not be an issue. At least, it might be something the two of you could work on.

I think there's a lot to consider before getting engaged or buying a house together. He might not be ready for marriage, but it might just be that he doesn't want to marry you. And do you really want to marry someone who doesn't understand depression and can't support you through it? Is he willing to work on that or does he just expect you to manage it yourself without any support from him?

Issue the ultimatum.
No house without a wedding date.
I got engaged in 2003 after 7 years.
We're still engaged.
I've given up asking him he obviously doesn't want to. Same with the snip.
Our money is tied, so there you go.

Late twenties, with you 4 years, living together and jointly owning a property. Says he’s not ready for marriage. He’s insulting you OP. “Not ready” means “I don’t want to commit to you because the way I feel about you right now is that I am more likely than not to want to escape from this relationship”. Have you asked him to properly explain what “not ready” means? It is too vague to be a reason in itself. The question you need to ask is “what needs to change in order for you to be ready?”

You say you are about to be promoted and earn a lot more than him. Could he feel jealous or emasculated by that? (I’m which case he either has to get over it or you split up).

Can you explain why you can’t complete the flat sale without buying the house?

Yes, presumably you have the option to sell the flat, and share the equity as you agree.

Given the relationship issues and differences over marriage/legal commitments, investing together in a more expensive property seems a bad plan. Even with good legal paperwork, it will still be a PITA to deal with if/when you break up, and the odds of that seem high.

Tbh given that you're about to earn a lot more than him, it's not in your interests to marry him anyway.

Not unless you plan to have children and stop work or reduce your working hours for a significant length of time.

Somebody once wrote on a mumsnet thread that purchasing a house was a commitment to the bank, having a child was a commitment to the child and that making the biggest commitment to eachother was marriage.
I have to admit, I agree so I don't think purchasing a house with your boyfriend is a bigger commitment than him marrying you. So I would wait unitll marriage if that is what you really want.

Well lets face it, its not a good sign or start already is it.

Your dp is not keen on getting engaged “its not the rights time” sounds to me he see’s buying a house less of a commitment than getting engaged or married.

To be honest I would say he’s obviously very immature and is afraid of commitment.

So you get engaged lets suppose, how long are you going to be engaged for 2, 3, 4 years, then you finally get married and you want to start a family but he says its not the right time, mean while your biological clock is ticking.

I know you love him but really moving on together shouldn’t be that hard, I would really think long and hard before buying a property with him, I think you both want different things.

In some ways I think you're being sensible looking to the long term, but I do think your timing makes you seem a bit manipulative - waiting until your old flat is sold. Was that the intent? To shock him into action?

Ive been in your shoes - LTR, I wanted to get married, DP didn't 'yet' - and found I had to make a choice whether what we had was good enough that I'd be happy without a ring, anything else would have driven me crazy.

Really Emma? So you shpuldnt look for commitment if it might end up costing you money? Do you give this advise to men also?