Reception year poo!

[toiletdrama]

Not sure if IABU or not. I'm cheesed off though. DD is in reception and didn't make it to the toilet in time and did a poo in her knickers. AIBU to think that school could have changed a random accident, rather than leavingDD sitting in it for over an hour whilst I traveled home from work? Cheesed off have to take half a days leave now too lost for commuting back to work! I always leave a spare uniform in her bag. It must have taken them longer to come and phone me than to change her. It was pretty "contained" (sorry if tmi!)

When I taught Y2, a child had a poo accident and my TA was absent. So I had to ask for the Y1 TA to watch my class while I found him spare pants. I just sent him in the toilet with wipes, told him to clean himself up and then the pants went into a bag. No way would I have let him sit in poo for an hour! Surely the same could have happened for your DD!

What an excellent link, @Thesunrising - perfect for the OP. A couple of choice quotes from it:

it is not generally acceptable practice to ask parents to come into school to change their child after they've wet or soiled themselves

It is tantamount to abuse to force/allow a child to sit in wet or soiled underwear until their parent or guardian can come in to change them.

When my son was 3 he had a medical problem that meant he sometimes couldn’t get to the toilet in time. They locked him in a cupboard while he cried to be let out until I got to the school. I removed him immediately.

Thanks. Appreciate all the replies. I'll read them properly and the link when she's asleep and have a think how to handle it in the morning. ...as well as try to catch up on work. They wouldn't even let me change her at school so I had to bring her home. HQ, it's a genuine post - namechanged as paranoid it was outing! I hadn't thought about leaving wipes etc, or teaching her to clear an accident herself as I or previously nursery was always there to deal in the past and it's not happened at school before. She's apologised to me for her accident grrr ffs. And breathe....

I think I'd teach dd to have a decent try herself and then ask teacher that if it happened again can they just supervise her as you don't want her sitting in pop for that long as you work far away.
I probably wouldn't mention the inconvenience to you as I think your get more leeway if you approach it for dds benefit as opposed to minimize inconvenience to you . Even though it really is!

That question on the ERIC website refers to a child having an individual health care plan, a child who has just randomly had an accident is unlikely to have one of those.

There may not be a legal requirement for two staff members to be present when changing, but many schools have it as their policy for good reason, and staff are required to follow policy.

Maybe if there are staff shortages the policy should be changed, but at the same time there's a fair argument against expecting teachers to change soiled children alone. If there were no baby wipes available, then staff wouldn't have been able to get her properly clean in school anyway, so it would still be wise to ask a parent to come and ensure she was clean.

I'm not saying it's ok for a child to be left so long in that situation, it's not, but I think it's highly unlikely to be the teachers fault that this happened. I think you need to ask why your child was unable to be helped. Is it normal procedure or was it because of bad timing and there was simply no one available to do it? Ask the headteacher what the school policy is, and why the teacher made the decision to call you instead of changing her, or instructing her how to clean herself. Does the school have equipment available like gloves, spare bags, spare underwear and baby wipes? (I know you sent in spare clothes, but the policy should be the same for all children, even if it means children going commando with PE kit). Why weren't you allowed to change her at school so that she could go back to learning asap? As a PP said, your being at work is irrelevant as there could be any number of reasons why a parent can't be at school within 15 mins, that shouldn't affect them making decisions that are in the best interests of the child.

I hope your dd is ok and you can get it sorted so you both feel better.

YANBU that is really odd. My son started at preschool which is attached to the reception of our local school (the reception and pre schoolers are all together) and many kids weren't completely toilet trained tbh. My son managed to get it after a couple of weeks but up until then the staff would always change him if he had an accident. There are still kids in that class having regular accidents who are 4 and they all get changed by staff.... they dont ring people to come and collect when a child has an accident at all in the reception there.

TA in reception here.

I’ve always dealt with soiled accidents and we just get on with it, no phone call to a parent or the need of two members of staff for safe guarding .

Leaving your dd in soiled underwear was unacceptable, I’d be very unhappy about that and you’re within your right to complain.

For the pp whose child was locked in a cupboard, that is truly awful. . Ive had a look through the initial bumpf I got from the school and the website and can see nothing that suggests parents would be called in. DD goes toilet several times a day, so I'm now worried it could happen again, but logically it probably won't. I'll put wet wipes in her bag and guide her what to do. Happy (more than) for knickers and poo to be binned! The journey time to work is relevant as it will always take a minimum of an hour for me or DH to get home - need trains etc - where I live, an hour commute is normal to get into town. I will then need to go home and get car as DD would be walking 25 mins in shit otherwise. I won't say what a PITA coming home is! I will also find out policy of being sick etc - a Pp said a child was left in vomit for 45 mins. What is wrong with people?!!

The ERIC website was interesting. She hasn't got any special ed needs or care plan, but might be worth showing it to them. The school seem to take the line of understanding accidents might happen, but don't give a toss about kids welfare when it does. I think it's the ethos of "it happens, understandable at this age etc etc, however, we have no ability/appetite/intention to deal with it!" I feel like I want to remove her. It seems very cold for what bill themselves as a caring school. I'm livid again! It seems such a crap duty of care. Apparently they take the same approach with the preschool attached to them . It is a private school so I guess they can do what they want?? Would this ethos put you off a school even if she never has another accident again or do I just need to take a chill pill?!

Off topic but why is this such a big issue these days? None of the children ever shit themselves when mine where in school in the late 80's through early 2000's. They would never have lived it down. What's changed in the last 10-15 years that so many children now lack bowel and bladder control? Is it the result of leaving toilet training to 4-5 years? Why can't a 4 year old wipe their own ass and put their own underwear in a plastic bag? So weird.

Yuck. I don't think your dd is ready for school if this is happening. Teachers are paid to teach, not change children's underwear.

I can see both sides. In an ideal world it would be dealt with. However in my experience (from many years ago when mine were that age) its really hard for the school. They are not allowed to touch a child unless they are SN and there has been 8 million pieces of paperwork filled out. That’s fair enough otherwise every second parent would accuse teachers of inappropriate touching.

Then in order to direct the kid to clean it up themselves they have to be in the bathroom with them (not in cubicle but in bathroom). This means 2 teachers have to be there. This means you now need 2 spare teachers or if the principal is free (rare), themselves and a teacher. So unless it is at recess or lunch there would not be required resource.

It’s hard all round. Best thing to do is teach your child a diy clean up.

I see it's a private school. They can make their own rules and if that's their policy you're stuck with it.

I'll dig deeper today and find out what reasons are. Let's hope she does live it down and that we've moved on since the 70s. Cane anyone

Apologies, I haven't read the whole thread but I'm shocked! I'm a F2/reception nursery nurse and changing children and reassuring them it's ok is part of my job!
My teacher and I actually take it in turns if it's a 'blue glove job' and keep a supply of spare clothes, wipes etc in the toilet.
I really hope you complain, totally unacceptable way to deal with a situation that is relatively common in a class of young children!

Its a tough one, I can see it from a teacher's POV they are there to teach but they could at least offer her wipes and new pants if they did not want to change them.

My DD was diagnosed with epilepsy extremely young. She had something of a special care plan because back then even the most mildest of seizures caused bowl movement which allowed teachers to help change her etc when she was reception / yr1. Even then I felt bad that the TA had to help change her.

And this was 15 years ago as well so I imagine safeguarding practice has increased rapidly.

Poor little love, nobody deserves that indignity. Sounds like a real risk for her to get a UTI too, being made to sit in it.

@knittedjest
Totally irrelevant bitchy post

It's a private school. Sorry op, I would be even more livid.

@ ghanagirl - thanks, I thought so too!

She's gone in ok this morning, a little bit more apprehensive, but ok. She was keen to show me she was a big girl and had done a poo this morning, which she hasn't done for ages though. I have held back from speaking to them as don't trust myself not to do something rash, as I'm pretty sure they are just going to say it's not their policy, rather than a staffing problem or something. They apparently have the same policy with their preschool I will call and make an appointment.
I remember when I was about seven, having a pretty strict teacher. I put my hand up to go toilet and she said no more interruptions from anyone please and I ended up wetting myself. The teacher sorted me out straight away, but I remember the embarrassment.
With regard to a PP, I do believe teachers don't just teach - in the same way that more resources may be used to help another child to read or write or with settling in issues or personal circumstances or hurting themselves when they fall over or being told to wipe a nose or not hit people etc - a four year old having an accident should not be beyond School's assistance. It's that the school takes this mentality that disgusts me. It seems like a "we won't even entertain the thought". Why publish how "caring" they are and not publish that policy?! How is that a "caring" school? We went there as a back up in case we got allocated a particular school that we didn't want. Whilst accident probably won't happen again, this mentality has given me the rage!!

Sorry, that was long. It seems from posters that some schools take a pragmatic, empathetic approach. Whilst this isn't always possible due to e.g. resources, it would be their choice. Other schools are blocked by all these rules and regulations that others don't seem to be?! My gran always said where there's a will, there's a way. Bugger. Really must do some work!!!

To be honest though a 4 yo without additional needs should be capable of cleaning themselves up if they don’t make it to the toilet in time. Surely it’s much easier for parents to teach their children to do that independently than for 2 members of staff to be required to clean children/talk them through it every time it happens?
Yes schools have a duty of care to children but so do parents.

That's awful OP. My ds has had several accidents in reception and year 1 and he has always been changed.

My son has chronic constipation so was having various accidents at school from p1-3 which was so upsetting for him. The school were amazing and sorted him out he always had a set of clean clothes nappy sacks wipes etc in his bag. School dealt with it in such a compassionate way he was never made to feel bad and they’d never let him sit in it. It took us a long time to get an appointment with a continence nurse who is wonderful and has really helped him and I cant remember his last accident.

and to the goady poster who says this is a new thing it’s not, just because your children didn’t have accidents doesn’t mean others didn’t and were you at school with your kids to witness this? At 4 they are little, my sons were trained by 3 but still needed some assistance wiping themselves but we go to nursery at 4 not school.

I would certainly be checking policies and having a discussion with school re this, to leave her sat in her own mess is pretty grim and If I did this as a nurse (paeds) to a child rather than changing them I’d be in big trouble, skin breaks down etc. Surely whilst at school staff have a duty of care, agree it’s not a nice job but this is a little girl probably upset and embarrassed and anyone who says it’s not their job to make her feel more comfortable should find another job

Just realised it's a private school!!! I work in a inner city state school, where we are often stretched to the absolute limits (think classes of 30, just about getting by with multiple sen children and just 2 of us to juggle it all!!) yet I would never treat a child who had an accident the way your dd was, I can't think of a single colleague who would.
Presumably a private school is rather more spoilt in terms of class size, staff numbers etc? So even more inexcusable!