To ask for opinions on ‘medicalised’vs ‘natural’ birth?

[birdonawire1]

Read so many stories of mismanaged births, CTG not read correctly, babies not monitored and damaged and then read romanticised stories all about the perfect ‘natural’ birth.

It seems very polarised so what do people think really?

Comeymemo I found my midwife appointments utterly pointless. They'd listen to the babies which was good but other than that nothing happened. Still not sure what they were supposed to do!

Yes Seline, I was met with a completely blank face at every appointment when I said I had an acute persistent suchorionic hematoma. They had no idea what that was, how to manage it or how it could impact my birth management. Yet they also always refused to refer me to an obgyn for proper care.

The most disheartening thing was how they never read my notes beforehand, so every appointment started with “Everything still going well?” (Er, no)

Comeymemo at my booking appointment I asked what would be different this time with their care as it was a twin pregnancy. I got a confused look and she said "you know what? I don't actually know. We don't see many twins here! Jo? Jo! Do you know what happens in twin pregnancies? No? Sorry."

Comeymemo Those statistics are a disgrace yet still are not focussing the minds of NHS official and midwifery trainers. They are simply making the same mistakes over and over again.

I don’t fall into the less advantaged women category (degree and ICU nurse) and I know highly intelligent women in the same position. I think the issue is you have trust in midwives and obstetricians to do their jobs. Sadly this isn’t always the case.

An obstetrician at kings college hospital ran a trial scanning placental health to reduce stillbirths. He reduced them to zero but his trial wasn’t continued due to finances.

I researched pregnancy and paid for GBS screening in an attempt to reduce risks. I did everything I could but a simple leaflet with worrying symptoms would have saved DD. Not expensive, and neither is GBS screening on the NHS

@birdonawire is that information about his trial readily available in the public domain? What’s the researchers name? It sounds like it could be interesting reading. Thanks

My ELCS was as perfect a birth as I could have imagined. I remember being wheeled into the theatre and seeing at least 20 medical staff in the room, and feeling hugely reassured that my daughter and myself were in the hands of such a professional team. I even loved the epidural...once the numbness spread downwards it felt like stepping into a warm bath. All the lingering discomfort of the pregnancy disappeared and I felt I could finally relax and let go.

I was also elated that my ladybits basically back instantly after the CS. I hated having to go for a wee every 1-2 hours during pregnancy and ended up limiting so many activities and travel plans. The thought of risking a birth injury which could cause long term bladder issues was horrifying.

I'm 4 weeks after birth and love my post-partum body. The only indication that I was ever pregnant is a small, well-healing scar and a faint linea nigra, both of which I wear with pride. Physically, I have no pain or discomfort and feel like I'm fully back to my old self (just with baby :D).

I have had an ELCS with both of mine. It was the right thing for me, I have a horrible fear of giving birth and I ended up getting very depressed throughout the pregnancy so it was the best thing to do for us. But every woman should do what is right for her

*babycatcher411

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-29367001

i had an induction and 2 natural births but the last one was unitentionally born in my neighbours house. all i can say is you can only plan so much you dont know whats going to happen on the day( even with a planned ) section ) but the staff will do their utmost to make sure you and baby are ok and as least pain as possible, try not to panic.

Also very shocked to read NICE recommend NOT doing a CTG reading on a low risk mother on admission!

Why would you not want a baseline on what the health of the baby is on any mother in labour or late pregnancy?

@babycatcher411

I see your point about women not researching (and it’s a good comparison to point out the amount we often research on a pushchair or car seat) BUT I do think an attitude is pushed on women of “oh don’t bother with a birth plan, it goes out the window” “the medical staff know best, just be completely open to whatever they want to do. A live mother and baby is all that matters”.

I feel women are generally discouraged from doing their own research, people including drs tell women not to google or get information online. Then the leaflets and literature provided antenatally is often very patronising with not a lot of real facts (for instance instrumental birth risks) and lots of language that doesn’t really stress consent or choice- eg. ‘you will need/won’t be allowed/drs may decide to give you an episiotomy/drs may decide to use forceps on you’

Then there is the general disdain to women who do write birth plans or research. As a PP mentioned you read the nasty backlash a lot of women get for making the informed choice to have an ELCS.

I wanted as little medical intervention as possible, which is exactly what I got, especially for my 2nd and 3rd. I seem to be one of those women who can give birth and recover quickly and easily, so I consider myself very fortunate in that respect. Thankfully all 3 of my babies were healthy.
If medical intervention had been required for either the baby or myself I would have accepted in a heartbeat, because as others have said, the health and safety of the mother and baby are paramount.

@tynext I don’t disagree, it’s probably gone too far the other way for many people when it comes to birth plans.
Whenever I advise women about birth plans, I advise that the point of them is to know what is available/might happen so you can go on to make the best informed decision possible at the time, as opposed to it being a structured plan as to what should happen, because often we can’t control the events themselves.

What I find sad though, is that even aside of birth plans themselves, many women do little research about anything to do with having a baby. You would be surprise how many people have no idea what a placenta is, that you bleed after having a baby etc.

Basic CTGs provide little information in telling how well a baby will cope with labour, they just tell you how well the baby is coping at this moment.

@Bird Former midwife here. That's based on evidence that it doesn't improve outcomes, if there was an indication something was abnormal (reduced movements, bleeding, meconium, signs of an infection etc etc etc etc) then would be done. A CTG is useful but it's not the absolute safety net of all births - babies are still harmed when they're used because of incorrect interpretation mostly.

Had a 'natural' birth...it was awful. Would totally sign up for an elective C-section if I ever did it again...but I won't because of the above.

Whatever you think you want before you go into labour becomes irrelevant when you are in pain, or baby is in distress. The only thing that matters is getting you and baby through labour safe and sound.

@Sirrah I disagree that what you want becomes ‘irrelevant’ in labour. There are options/choices throughout the process, often even when things don’t go to plan. Eg some women choose to decline routine vaginal examinations, some women opt for an emergency cesearean rather than emergency forceps.

Originally I wanted to deliver in a natural birthing centre. However I ended up giving birth in a hospital surrounded by doctors and nurses. My partner took several pictures. Babies are known for their unpredictability. I learned that the hard way.
Not long after birth my son was swept away from me.
This is why I haven’t made any birth plans this time around.

I've had three babies, each labour was different and required completely different management! I would have done whatever was necessary to ensure my babies were safe, absolutely anything! That is what I was saying, having a birth plan only works if labour is straightforward.

I'd love a ELCS.

I think it is great that people have a choice but I am not one for romantic natural births. I want it out quickly and without pain. I am not ashamed to say that I am terrified of pushing and pain. I am naturally a complete wimp and have the narrowest pelvis so it doesn't bode well.

I am early pregnant now at nearly 41 - I am half hoping that a section will be suggested. If it is I will bite their hand off.

@Sirrah I had a birth plan for my second birth and it was very helpful even though the birth wasn’t straightforward (baby went into distress) it’s not about having a ‘plan’ for a perfect birth, it’s about thinking of all your choices and options including during emergency situations. So the staff knew I wasn’t prepared to consent to high rotational forceps and took that into account when looking at options. Most women won’t ignore sound medical advice to birth their baby safely but often there is choice/options available with different risks/benefits. Not researching beforehand and leaving every decision down to the staff can mean you go down a route or get retain procedures done that you would never consent to if you’d have known the risks and alternatives.

There's nothing wrong with research, I learned as much as I could before going into labour, but ruling out procedures without knowing what might happen makes no sense.

I get that, and I think that’s a misconception about birth plans. It’s not women saying ‘oh I’m going to have a candlelit water birth with no interventions’ its knowing what the options are in all eventualities. So I did rule out high rotational forceps because i know a CS is an alternative to that. However without that on my birth plan it would be easy for staff to dictate using them. Another one was declining the routine VEs, yet I’ve seen women say they didnt know you coulda decline anything which is quite shocking really.

chocolatecoins. Surely the whole point of having a reliable monitoring method is that they should be interpreted correctly?
Having looked at a few online resources and you tube videos they are not difficult to read for a complete novice so someone using them every day, there are no excuses. End of. Birth injuries have 2 main causes. Delay and misinterpreting CTG readings.

Instead of coming at it from the direction of ‘they are misinterpreted and lead to interventions’ it should be obligatory that midwives and doctors interpret them correctly?
If I or the drs I work with ‘misinterpreted’ ECGs and blood gases we would be hung out to dry.
As for a baseline reading not being helpful on telling how the baby will cope in labour surely the point is the woman is in labour when she presents? I know many mothers whose first CTG in labour was grossly pathological but who hadn’t had one in the previous hours following admission.

Sorry but I feel mothers and babies get such a raw deal in this country with low levels of vigilance and monitoring with 1000 babies damaged or stillborn. Our safety record compared with other developed countries is near the bottom.