To ask for opinions on ‘medicalised’vs ‘natural’ birth?

[birdonawire1]

Read so many stories of mismanaged births, CTG not read correctly, babies not monitored and damaged and then read romanticised stories all about the perfect ‘natural’ birth.

It seems very polarised so what do people think really?

For a start, stop using those terms. They alienate and distress women who did not have the birth they ‘wanted’.
If a baby comes out, it’s a birth. End of story.

Ideal for most people is a 'natural birth' but that's a 'retrospective diagnosis'. You can plan for it and hope for it all you want but you won't know if that's what you'll get until after the event when it's too late to change your mind!
I agree entirely with @Dowdydoes upthread.

I would never choose a midwife led unit there they have to transfer you if things don't go to plan. How are your supposed to know whether or not you're going to need intervention? Better to be safe than sorry and go for the obstetrician-led.

I wanted a water birth with as little intervention as possible, gas and air only.

In the end, DD was dragged out with the salad tongs forceps following induction, meaning I couldn't be in water. The epidural was amazing.

It was as far from my birth plan as you can get but actually was still a really positive experience.

I believe there a chance of a mum delivering her baby in a field, of flowers calm and happy with no 20th 21st century help.

I believe we should be on our knees thanking medical advances for saving our nuns, aunts, granny's, friends lives during labour and many babies who would have died without it. I don't know think women today realise how many women and babies died in child birth.

I belive all women should be able to access impartial info on elc and natural birth.

And choose from a there.

I had vb and elc. My elc was amazing (not easy) but amazing compared to vb.

Skin to skin, established bf... I'd highly recommend one as a beautiful way to bring baby into a the world.
Safely.

Saving our nuns 😂😂😂🤣🤣MUMS

Naughty nuns

I don’t think you can separate “natural” and “medicalised” births - unless you have a homebirth with absolutely no monitoring or intervention then all births are medicalised to some degree.

“Medicalising” birth is not the problem. The focus should be on making births as safe as possible and giving mothers the support they need to make their own informed choices and be able to cope with birth and its complications without ending up traumatised at the end of it.

Darkstar is right. The only non medicalized births are free births (whether they be planned or not).

I agree with darkstar that it’s about information and consent and above all safety for mum and baby.

If this mean greater monitoring and more antenatal care then surely the cost would be offset by the money paid out for birth negligence?

Fwiw my baby is severely brain damaged because of birth negligence. All that was needed was a simple check on heart rate and my baby would be fine but the midwife thought she knew best and chose not to.

I’m so sorry about your situation, OP. It was only luck that my first baby wasn’t damaged or stillborn due to laissez-faire medical care in the NHS, which followed all the guidelines.

Because I wasn’t dilated enough in triage, they wouldn’t do any other checks, even though I was 24 hours into labour. Instead, they were dismissive and sent me away with paracetamol. When they finally did check him, they found he was in trouble. He was born six hours later, continuous monitoring on my back, with staff on standby for a crash section if he’d got even a little worse.

I learned later that in most countries, the complication he had is picked up in routine third trimester scans. But because it’s relatively rare and ‘only’ 50% fatal, it’s not worth it to scan for it.

Births are luck of the draw, but it does feel like the deck is stacked against women in this country due to the standard of antenatal care and (lack of) care during early labour.

Op I'm so sorry, that's heartbreaking.

My friend a GP had both of her babies ELCS also a specialist Physio I know who specialises in birth trauma, and I followed suit I guess.

To me ELCS is a natural birth but I guess I'm quite odd

Medial intervention all the way for me.

I'll take all the medical intervention on the menu. Childbirth fucking HURTS. Although my son arrived without complications, I will NEVER labour again. Never will I ever put myself through the agony of contractions again.

Hi OP
A really interesting thread, any chance you could ask to be moved to the pregnancy board?
Some people have these sorts of thread hidden for personal and important reasons

There's a massive difference between a natural birth and negligent care result in brain damage. I've seen many c/sections planned that then go very wrong for various reasons - I would not pick one just for the sake of it however am thankful they are an option when needed

There's one principle aim of giving birth and that is a safe delivery - that could be in front of a log fire at home or a c-section as long as the outcome is a happy healthy child it doesn't really matter. However from the mothers point of view, the safest way statistically is trying for a normal birth in a hospital setting (can be a midwife led unit as long as drs and intervention is on site) - you recover quicker from a straightforward vaginal delivery but if there's complications drs can step in. Try to be flexible and focus on the outcome rather than romanticise, I did have a straightforward no drugs delivery but I know too many people who didn't get such an easy ride to suggest anyone should expect this

A few days ago I gave birth at home on my living room floor. I didn't want or plan for a home birth I didn't even have time for pain relief and luckily the paramedics arrived 5 minutes before.
Due to a labial and third degree tear I still ended up in hospital having surgery under a spinal

These things cannot always be planned for and reading some of these stories I'm just grateful we got lucky.

Ten years ago, when I had my first, the death/damage for mother and child rates were higher when c sections were above 15 per cent of births. My brain is slightly fuzzy as to the exact wording, but I'm sure you could find it again.

My first was a home birth which would have been an emergency c section if it was in hospital (because I had an unnoticed cervical lip, plus dc came out like a flying superman (one arm up). The birth resolved fine but we ended up transferring in to hospital with post birth issues (jaundice mainly). I was very glad I wasn't in hospital for the birth.

Second birth at home, easy calm birth.

Third birth was induced in hospital , at 42+2, and by far the worst of the lot. Tore off bits of my pelvic floor and now have rectocele and cystocele. I was far more stressed and far more pain.

I've also had miscarriage care that saved my life (medicalised). I was home the following day (by choice) after losing 2 litres of blood.

For me, it comes down to where you are most comfortable. At home, if you can transfer if needed wins by far for me. But if you're scared of the unknown pushing etc, then an elc might just be perfect for you.

Best of luck whatever you decide.

I dilated and pushed with dc1. Apparently I have a flatter than optimal pelvis and dh's family all have giant heads (the last 3 generations at least with heads on or above the 90th percentile). They tried to pull him out of me with forceps, failed and he was eventually born by emergency section.

I had people tell me if I relaxed it would have worked (I was relaxed, I was reading "The Cruelest Month" by Louise Penny whilst in agonising back to back labour). I had people tell me if I'd dealt with being sexually assaulted, it would have worked. I had people tell me it was because they broke my waters, nope they went of their own accord without anyone touching me. If I'd spent more time at home...I spent 86 percent of my contraction time at home. If I'd told them they couldn't touch me, if if if. As if there had be a reason why it didn't work, as if they needed to blame something because it couldn't just be that I'm not made to deliver my dh's children.

When I was heavily pregnant with dc2, I walked home from preschool with a friend who had a water birth and and was still annoyed almost a year later that she hadn't had the "golden hour" because of how badly she tore. I wasn't even given the "golden hour" leaflet because I was planning an elective section. Went into labour early, got an amazing midwife/dr combination for my second emcs and ended up with delayed cord clamping, skin to skin after a 2 second rub down and all checks done in recovery much later on. All the things she missed out on with her water birth.

It's not natural versus medicalised in my opinion, it's good versus traumatic we should be discussing and even that's not simplistic. My first emergency section was massively traumatic, my second was utterly amazing. The current system is failing women and trying to shoehorn everyone down one path is never going to work.

For me, two ELCS were perfect - I was in major trouble with severe SPD, knackered after hyperemesis, very limited mobility...I didn't feel anything like strong enough to physically face labour by the time I got to the end of my first pregnancy. The second was even worse.

My birth experiences were, by contrast, very positive and if it wasn't for the fact my pregnancies are unutterably shit I'd happily have another CS.

My approach was very laid back in that I had an idea of what I thought it would be/how I wanted it but was equally prepared for my body to have it's own ideas. I wasn't wedded to any particular plan. Most of my birth plan said my preference but it would depend on medical advice. I chose to put my faith in the health professionals knowing their jobs. In my case, they did and I'm fully aware that's not the same for everybody and I was (am) fortunate.

In my ante natal group there were three kinds of mums. The ones who very strongly wanted a vaginal birth who had a nice experience. The ones who wanted a vaginal birth and aimed for a lovely natural experience who didn't get that. And finally, the ones who went in for a lot of medical care and were planning or hoping for a CS.

The biggest group by far were the ones who wanted a natural birth who didn't get it, and they are the ones who have suffered from birth trauma. The shock of a less than straightforward birth after reading and hearing about all these fabulous positive birth experiences for 9 months was too much and quite a lot of people needed counselling.

The first group can be loud, and there's always one or two in every ante natal group who tell all the FTMs how everyone can have a fabulous natural birth and feel like a warrior like they did. Then half the group end up with PND when their baby is born because the birth was such a shock.

You wouldn't opt for "natural" dentistry.

3 elective c-sections here.

That is my perfect birth.

@trills absolutely

2 emcs here.

Sometimes things don’t go to plan and there’s nowt you can do about it. I wish the medical profession would manage expectations better in that respect.