To think that lots of men think this way

[Flynnshine]

Recently a good friend of my partners has split from his wife of 15 years, they have two young children between 10 and 13.
The husband has decided he isn't happy and wants to end the relationship.

Last week he came over to our house in the evening and I left him and my husband chatting in the living room. I wasn't eavesdropping but I was only in the next room so could hear their conversation. Basically the husband has been planning this split for a while, 6 months before he announced he wanted to end things he sold their beautiful big house and they moved into their much smaller starter home which they had out on rent - they moved the kids out of their private school education and into a state school local to their new home.

They've always had a very comfortable life, beautiful house, nice cars and very fancy holidays a few times a year. They both had good jobs when they first met but when the children came along the wife stopped work and dedicated her life to them. They've done amazingly well at school, both top of their classes, sporty and do two sports for their local borough. They are polite and thoughtful and genuinely lovely children.

The conversation I overheard was the husband complaining that even though the wife hasn't paid towards the mortgage for over 10 years she will still be entitled to half of what the house is worth - he seemed bitter and angry and said he'd been hiding money for ages so she wouldn't get anything when they divorce. He's even planning on quitting his job and becoming self employed so he can fudge his earnings so his maintenance payments could be less. My husband was agreeing with him, I don't know if just to placate him or if that's really how he feels!

This man honestly thinks that because he has been working and paying a mortgage that his worth is so much more. He thinks he has enabled her to not work for over 10 years and that she has been having a jolly all that time. It's like he gives zero shits that he has two wonderful children that he has never had to lift a finger for and she has given her all to those children while he reaps the rewards of that.

Do all men deep down think like this, even if they won't openly admit it? Is money really the be all and end all of everything!?

@Smotheroffive
The results show just how heavily parents reentering the workforce are penalized for their career gap: 15.3% of the employed mothers, 9.7% of the unemployed mothers, and 4.9% of the stay-at-home mothers received a callback
I thought this was pretty clear unless I'm missing something?

I think in the absence of a more comprehensive study then this is pretty robust.

There is some interesting research done on unconscious bias and it's impact on recruitment and selection which could explain some of the results in that study. I'd be really interested to see a demographic breakdown of those in charge of deciding who got a callback.

I'm job hunting and have lots of interviews.
Difference being although qualified to Pg level I'm going for entry jobs.
I don't want any more responsibilities as with higher wages, employers expect a pound of flesh and in my 50's as a sahm for 30 years, it's all I want.
Certainly no problem getting interviews though.
You have to be realistic, if you take time out to care for children, even a year you aren't going to have the same opportunities whether male or female. Especially if you have been absent at a time in your career where you would be climbing the ladder.
As for shared paternity leave, I've only ever known career women want this. Most I know with a job want the time off themselves and don't want to share it.

@BlaaBlaaBlaa
I'm sure there is an element of unconscious bias, although I would also suggest there is an element of conscious bias too. Some of the derogatory opinions of SAHPs expressed quite openly on this forum prove that some people view the role and SAHPs themselves quite negatively. Frequent references to SAHPs being "unambitious", "lazy" and "obviously unhappy in their careers"

@RomanyRoots
You have to be realistic, if you take time out to care for children, even a year you aren't going to have the same opportunities whether male or female. Especially if you have been absent at a time in your career where you would be climbing the ladder
Of course but would you expect SAHPs to be penalised more for their time away from the workplace than unemployed people? That's what the research suggests and I think SAHPs have a right to feel aggrieved about this.

Bumpity

As I said, that's not my experience. I'm finding no problems and have even been offered interviews for jobs I'm really not cut out for as well as those I'd love.
maybe it is down to location and what industries and roles the area usually has.

bumpity You may well be right but what people are willing to write on an anonymous forum and what people will say IRL will differ dramatically.

Romany- from the women I know at work who’ve had babies over the last couple of years, what you say rings true. They’ve all taken extended ML of a year, and they’ve all said they want to take it all themselves rather than transfer some of it to their partner. It’s not always about men not wanting to take on a certain role. Sometimes it’s the woman not wanting to let them.

I’ve been out of the workplace for 15 years. I know exactly what I need to do to return to work because it’s the final part of the Adult Psychotherapist training which I left off when I was about 30. The fact I’m older now and have had DC is an advantage because it’s all life experience.

My eldest is now 15 and my youngest 10 and tbh, I haven’t had time to think about returning to work before now. I just wasn’t ready to, I guess. Also people get used to you being around and it becomes a lifestyle - a self-fulfilling prophecy. When I told DH about the course, he said, “I think it will be too much stress for you because you’ve got so much on with the kids.” He said he wouldn’t stop me obviously, but can I have a think about whether I really want to add complication at this stage of our lives. He said don’t do it because I think I should, we don’t need the money at this stage and the teen years are not easy to navigate. He hopes to retire at 50 and wants me around to “do things” with. Anyway, I think I am going to go the course and he’s ok with this, though a bit worried. I can practise from the age of qualification (46) to 60 or whenever - there is still life in me yet! But I do need flexibility in my work, even now the DC are all a bit older, because DH travels a lot and brings work home with him as default.

Anyway, what I mean to say is that nothing is ever set in stone and life evolves. What you want can change over time and you just have to adapt to life’s stages.

Of course but would you expect SAHPs to be penalised more for their time away from the workplace than unemployed people? That's what the research suggests and I think SAHPs have a right to feel aggrieved about this

Whilst some unemployed people will be so by choice I'd imagine mire aren't . Unemployment could range from a few days to long term etc. A SAHP actively opts out of working and usually for a good amount of years. As an employer most would take somebody that was unemployed through redundancy than someone who has shown no work ethic, no recent experience etc so not surprised at the research.

There are other ways of having a good work ethic than having an employer.
lots of sahp's keep skills and knowledge active by volunteering.
Of course they have a good work ethic.
You can't wake up one morning and think I won't care for my dc today, I'll leave them to it and go to the gym

Hubanmao

My dil is like this and the friends of hers I've met.
They just have jobs to pay the bills, usually entry level or min wage.
Obviously they aren't in a rush to get back.
My ds1 would have opted to take 3 months leave, because he loves his dd and would support his partner, but she wants to take all the leave and ds won't pressurise her as it is her that gave birth.

I took that comment to mean that if you’ve been a SAHP you can’t demonstrate a recent work ethic. Not that being a SAHP means you haven’t got a good work ethic. I hope that’s what BigBangRocks meant anyway

@Bertiebitch32 - carrying "his" children? What is she an unrelated surrogate? They are also HER kids...... what if he charged her for his sperm? That's just plain ridiculous.

@Wordthe - wow you know such strange men!!! Women belong to their partners?? Really in 2019?? Really hope you don't have daughters when this is what you're spouting - it will take generations to fix at this rate!!!

@TheBigBangRocks
Whilst some unemployed people will be so by choice I'd imagine mire aren't . Unemployment could range from a few days to long term etc. A SAHP actively opts out of working and usually for a good amount of years. As an employer most would take somebody that was unemployed through redundancy than someone who has shown no work ethic, no recent experience etc so not surprised at the research
I think/hope you have misunderstood the research. The study compared the prospects of theoretically identical candidates that have spent the same amount of time out of the workplace, the only difference being that one was purported to be a SAHP during their time out of employment whilst the other was simply "unemployed". Not sure how the unemployed person could be seen to demonstrate a better work ethic in this kind of scenario, although I do find it interesting that you have focussed on this as it does rather play to the "lazy SAHP" stereotype that seems to be pretty pervasive.

With its potential lack of objectivity (huge subconscious bias) and unrelated population, I don't agree its robust, only in terms of basis for further study where there is scant currently.

It shows what it shows for that target pop in the areas canvassed. Tbh the methodology came across as quite woolly to me, and not not necessarily significant in terms of greater population extrapolation.

The UK market don't think the same, I employ people for their innate ability, aptitude as well as qualifications and experience (of all types which would include critical parenting and management/coping skills and strategies) as well as aspirations. What proportion of the employing population are female/male and how does that impact, for example? The research didn't account for that bias, etc.

shown no work ethic !!! No sahp most definitely not equal 'no work ethic I think there's your answer, that and other reasons on this thread, the women belonging to the men thing etc.

Clearly a long way to go...

shown no work ethic !!! No...sahp most definitely not equal to no work ethic I think there's your answer, that and other reasons on this thread, the women belonging to the men thing etc.

Clearly a long way to go...

Hopefully Bigbang will clarify what they meant by that. Because I read it as ‘if you’ve been a SAHP you can’t show evidence of work ethic. Not that they’re lazy! They could be Quite the opposite and a brilliant hard working SAHP. The point is, your children don’t write you a reference as evidence of that!

Ah, yes, but like you say...you can only say it and demonstrate it through other means in the way you come across and the value you can offer!!!

What do we think of the women who want to be with their babies for their first year, ratherhan share that, and presumably if ebf express at work etc, does that restrict your work, it is all work that can accommodate that.

I was wondering earlier also about a CEO father being phoned by school to say DC sick and needs collecting, or broken arm in sports needs taking to hospital, or whatever, DM, working 3 hours away, he's closer, you get the idea.

I loved that Barack Obama enjoyed having his family living at work! That he could just go upstairs to help DC with homework and all sit down together for dinner, I love that it clearly mattered.

Clearly being a cabby, bus driver, train driver, similar roles do prevent such flexibility

I was wondering earlier also about a CEO father being phoned by school to say DC sick and needs collecting, or broken arm in sports needs taking to hospital, or whatever, DM, working 3 hours away, he's closer, you get the idea

Why is that any different than a CEO mother? Or any parent doing any job?
My director DH gets phoned first on a Tuesday or Thursday because I teach those days and have very little flexibility. The rest of the week is mine to structure so I take care of any emergencies. Being a CEO or director doesn't mean you stop being a parent.

Again, I am not saying there is anything wrong with it! I specifically asked if it was a father in that role.

Your post makes no sense smother